Configuring pickups for series settings only?

[Dood]

Has anyone (with an instrument with more than two pickup elements) configured their pickup switch for multiples of series wiring selections?

So for example, using three or four coils you could on a four way rotary switch do:

1+2
2+3
1+3
1+4
in series with each other.

Those coils could be part of a dual coil humbucker or better still very separate coils further apart between bridge and neck positions.

Did it make a huge amount of difference to the instrument sound between those settings? I know that verses single coil and parallel settings the series sound is louder and fuller in the mids due to a rounding off of the top end in a passive set up. But I'm keen to find out if there's a big difference created by pickup position.

Does that all make sense?

[Chiliwailer]

Even though they are wired in parallel, when I tried the HH Stingrays I found that the tonal difference wasn't worth the agro of messing around with the switches for my tastes. You can see the schematics on the EBMM website in the Stingray page.

[url="http://www.music-man.com/instruments/basses/stingray.html"]http://www.music-man.com/instruments/basses/stingray.html[/url]

But no, I haven't tried it on my bass and may not have been of any help at all to you and perhaps even ticked off some Stingray HH players (apologies if so).

Does that make sense?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Chiliwailer

[ikay]

Here's another schematic for the Enfield Super 8 pickup - [url="http://www.enfieldguitars.com/Enfield%20instructions%20page1.pdf"]http://www.enfieldguitars.com/Enfield%20instructions%20page1.pdf[/url]

Not tried one myself so can't comment but I'm sure there's a pretty wide spectrum of sounds on tap with all those different coil combinations. All the switching options shown here are also parallel. I'm not sure why they don't offer series switching options as well.

I've tried Stingray HH and HS models but actually much prefer the single H config. The other coil combinations sounded different but, to my ears, the single H setting still sounded best. More direct and punchy than the other coil combinations, some of which were a bit too scooped and polite for my liking. Who wants a 'polite' Stingray? Enough people to carry on making them I guess! What do I know

[HowieBass]

I'm guessing there would be the difference due to potential phase reinforcement or cancellation of the harmonic partials in just the same way you get with conventional parallel wiring. Am I right in assuming that pickups in series present the combined impedance of both so in effect you have the equivalent of an overwound coil and the reason for the thicker (muddy?) sound is that you have something like a 250K pot connected where you really ought to have perhaps a 500K? I suppose you could try to engineer something like a 250K resistor which gets connected with the pot when you go into series mode?

[Dood]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1418215422' post='2628009']
Even though they are wired in parallel, when I tried the HH Stingrays I found that the tonal difference wasn't worth the agro of messing around with the switches for my tastes. You can see the schematics on the EBMM website in the Stingray page.

[url="http://www.music-man.com/instruments/basses/stingray.html"]http://www.music-man...s/stingray.html[/url]

But no, I haven't tried it on my bass and may not have been of any help at all to you and perhaps even ticked off some Stingray HH players (apologies if so).

Does that make sense?
[/quote]

Thank you, definitely some food for thought there as I may end up testing out some different configurations including a parallel coil mix.

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1418218170' post='2628054']
Here's another schematic for the Enfield Super 8 pickup - [url="http://www.enfieldguitars.com/Enfield%20instructions%20page1.pdf"]http://www.enfieldgu...ons%20page1.pdf[/url]

Not tried one myself so can't comment but I'm sure there's a pretty wide spectrum of sounds on tap with all those different coil combinations. All the switching options shown here are also parallel. I'm not sure why they don't offer series switching options as well.

I've tried Stingray HH and HS models but actually much prefer the single H config. The other coil combinations sounded different but, to my ears, the single H setting still sounded best. More direct and punchy than the other coil combinations, some of which were a bit too scooped and polite for my liking. Who wants a 'polite' Stingray? Enough people to carry on making them I guess! What do I know
[/quote]

I think you've edged toward my thinking - I kinda like the idea of something less polite and fatter sounding. The bass in question has a naturally bright sound with a very clear pristine 3 band EQ. I've tested a middle and bridge pickup configuration is series and have found it is rather pleasing! It's not muddy at all and the EQ helps to tidy things a little. The abss still sounds very modern but with a huge output boost and some really tasty low mids apparent.

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1418218366' post='2628058']
I'm guessing there would be the difference due to potential phase reinforcement or cancellation of the harmonic partials in just the same way you get with conventional parallel wiring. Am I right in assuming that pickups in series present the combined impedance of both so in effect you have the equivalent of an overwound coil and the reason for the thicker (muddy?) sound is that you have something like a 250K pot connected where you really ought to have perhaps a 500K? I suppose you could try to engineer something like a 250K resistor which gets connected with the pot when you go into series mode?
[/quote]

Certainly yes this one setting I'm messing with sounds like a big overwounder but thanks to the EQ (and I guess taking care of any impedance issues) the tone is still very clear despite the hike in mids. Top end and lows are superb.

[Dood]

I guess the next step is to select a really good quality rotary switch so that I can work out a schematic to get a bunch of coil configs together.

I'm thinking for starters I have to try

1+2
1+3
2+3

but I think I need to prototype them just in case there is little tonal difference. I'm thinking 1+2 (Neck and Middle) will be the fattest sounding.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1418312704' post='2629075']


Thank you, definitely some food for thought there as I may end up testing out some different configurations including a parallel coil mix.

[/quote]

A long while back I added a neck pickup to a stingray and had a coil tap added to each pickup. These were wired in parallel and were thinner and very clean sounding, though quite noisy which was annoying. I guess that's why the Ray 5 and Sterling have an added ghost coil under the pickup. To cancel the annoying hum.

Why did I ever sell that bass? It had a P Bass pickup in it too and an active bypass. Oh yeah, I sold it to get an original 64 P Bass, which I later sold, darn it!!!

[Dood]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1418317911' post='2629146']
A long while back I added a neck pickup to a stingray and had a coil tap added to each pickup. These were wired in parallel and were thinner and very clean sounding, though quite noisy which was annoying. I guess that's why the Ray 5 and Sterling have an added ghost coil under the pickup. To cancel the annoying hum.

Why did I ever sell that bass? It had a P Bass pickup in it too and an active bypass. Oh yeah, I sold it to get an original 64 P Bass, which I later sold, darn it!!!
[/quote]

I was just wondering last night why I sold an amp recently! I should have kept it!! oh damn you G.A.S!!!!!!! ha ha ha!!

[KiOgon]

Hey dood, I don't know if you do your own soldering/wiring etc but if not & you need a hand - switches - soldering - connectors etc. give me a shout.

Cheerz, John

[Dood]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1418322825' post='2629206']
Hey dood, I don't know if you do your own soldering/wiring etc but if not & you need a hand - switches - soldering - connectors etc. give me a shout.

Cheerz, John
[/quote]

Thanks for the offer John! Very kind! - Yes, I am a 'solderer' so I should be ok - but actually yes, I'd be looking at getting a high quality rotary switch. I've not looked online yet but I assume a Switchcraft or similar from the likes of StewMac / All parts etc would be a good place to start. Schematically I think I'm going to need a 4 x 4 type giving me four poles and four useable positions. I don't think I can configure with less. It's late and my brain stopped working an hour past curry.

That said, I could well end up going the whole hog and I do like the idea of having a loom made up as I am impatient and also very busy!

Cheers! Dooood

[Bottle]

Dood, just to throw a rubber duck in the ring, have you considered a different approach? Dingwall do a four-position rotary switch pre-configured for humbuckers.

Position 1: Bridge Humbucker only
Position 2: Both pups in parallel
Position 3: Both pups in Series
Position 4: Neck HB only

IIRC it's called the 'super switch' or something.

This [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/1117-rim-custom-5-string-for-alex-claber-36-inch-scale-finished-with-soundclips/"]thread[/url] may help

ATB, Ian

[Rumple]

I have a passive bass with 2 hunbuckers each connected to a 4 position rotary switch.

1. Off
2. Single Coil
3. Parallel
4. Series

Lots of combinations producing a huge variation in tones from a passive set-up, it's a bit different from what you are after doing I admit.

[Dood]

[quote name='Bottle' timestamp='1418736265' post='2632794']
Dood, just to throw a rubber duck in the ring, have you considered a different approach? Dingwall do a four-position rotary switch pre-configured for humbuckers.

Position 1: Bridge Humbucker only
Position 2: Both pups in parallel
Position 3: Both pups in Series
Position 4: Neck HB only

IIRC it's called the 'super switch' or something.

This [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/1117-rim-custom-5-string-for-alex-claber-36-inch-scale-finished-with-soundclips/"]thread[/url] may help

ATB, Ian
[/quote]

Funnily, it's my Dingwall with this arrangement that I am undoing!!!

[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1418743145' post='2632878']
I have a passive bass with 2 hunbuckers each connected to a 4 position rotary switch.

1. Off
2. Single Coil
3. Parallel
4. Series

Lots of combinations producing a huge variation in tones from a passive set-up, it's a bit different from what you are after doing I admit.
[/quote]

I think with the configuration I have, the single / parallel / series options would all live rather well together and that's cool - but obviously there's a limitation in terms of switching components and not wanting to dig any new holes in my bass, especially if the plan doesn't work. My best hope at the moment appears to be a 4 pole 6 way switch that would give me 6 different pickup configurations. In my mind I think I would like

1+2
1+3
2+3
1-2
1-3
2-3
and maybe either 1+2+3 which would be insane I am sure
but who couldn't resist 1-2-3?

(+ = Series, - = Parallel)

But it's a case of picking the best out of all of those! Choices eh!!!

[Rumple]

Tricky decision, I have found that some of the combinations sound very similar to each other. Are you in a position where you could try the 6 way switch as a test then if you don't use certain settings re-wire those ones or drop down to a 4 way using the best sounds?

[ikay]

If you manage to test this it would be great to hear some sound clips. Particularly the multiple series switching options as I've not seen these offered on any other stock bass.

[Dood]

[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1418805724' post='2633446']
Tricky decision, I have found that some of the combinations sound very similar to each other. Are you in a position where you could try the 6 way switch as a test then if you don't use certain settings re-wire those ones or drop down to a 4 way using the best sounds?
[/quote]

Well, I have seen some rotary switches that have a little metal ring tag that allows you to limit the turn positions of the switch but I'm not sure if hey are available as guitar pickup selector switches.
You are right though - if too many are similar then there's no real point doing it - other than the fun of finding out!!

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1418806538' post='2633460']
If you manage to test this it would be great to hear some sound clips. Particularly the multiple series switching options as I've not seen these offered on any other stock bass.
[/quote]

Ok, I'll get some clips together of my bass before the customisation.. but even now it has a different configuration from stock, so maybe worth hearing anyway!

[pfretrock]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1418218366' post='2628058']
Am I right in assuming that pickups in series present the combined impedance of both so in effect you have the equivalent of an overwound coil and the reason for the thicker (muddy?) sound is that you have something like a 250K pot connected where you really ought to have perhaps a 500K? I suppose you could try to engineer something like a 250K resistor which gets connected with the pot when you go into series mode?
[/quote]

Going from 250K to 500K is not going to make a lot of difference, certainly not a big remedy for muddyness. What is happening is the series configuration doubles the inductance, which will significantly cut treble (lower the -3dB point to half the frequency).
Pickup manufacturers tell you that inductance is important, then don't specify what value their pups are. DC resistance, which they seem to like, does not tell you much (although it may imply a bigger/smaller winding, but you don't know the wire gauge - usually.

[Dood]

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1418828557' post='2633766']
Going from 250K to 500K is not going to make a lot of difference, certainly not a big remedy for muddyness. What is happening is the series configuration doubles the inductance, which will significantly cut treble (lower the -3dB point to half the frequency).
Pickup manufacturers tell you that inductance is important, then don't specify what value their pups are. DC resistance, which they seem to like, does not tell you much (although it may imply a bigger/smaller winding, but you don't know the wire gauge - usually.
[/quote]

It's good that you bring that up actually as I found that the pre and pickup combination on my bass was a little on the bright side prior to trying my first series configuration. I'm pleased that actually running that series setting, the bass has become more touch sensitive through the mid range and actually the EQ sounds more 'musical' and smooth through the top end. That may also be something to do with my 'test' rig as well, which is akin to a great big studio speaker right now! Lots of clarity!

Totally agree with you about DC resistance. I posted on a thread elsewhere that it makes me laugh to see (especially ebay) sellers referencing the resistance reading as a way of classifying a pickup!

[pfretrock]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1418830373' post='2633799']
Totally agree with you about DC resistance. I posted on a thread elsewhere that it makes me laugh to see (especially ebay) sellers referencing the resistance reading as a way of classifying a pickup!
[/quote]

Something on this here, and a good explanation, but they still don't tell you what their inductance is. (if you need to know)

[url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/inductance-what-it-is-and-why-it-matters/"]http://www.seymourdu...why-it-matters/[/url]

[Kiwi]

I have something like this already set up on my Spector(s) but have opted for parallel rather than series because I then have the option of single coil settings without massive jumps of volume due to changes in voltage. Modest jumps (due to impedance changes) can be soaked up by a buffered onboard pre like the East or (by request) Noll circuits.

[Dood]

I think that's why I am more likely to go with series OR parallel despite liking the idea of having both. I too have a preamp on board thus impedance changes are less of a problem. The configuration I am probably settling on will mean that only two of the three pickups will be in series with each other at any one time so I'm not expecting too much impedance changes between settings.

My main problem actually is selecting a suitable switch ha ha!

[Dood]

Right then!

All done! - My Dingwall AB1 has a new configuration. After chatting with Dingwall Tech Support, I've replaced the existing four way switch with my own custom wiring that has, in my opinion been a successful little project!

My AB1 is a XXX version with three neodymium Dingwall pickups.

Firstly I configured each of the coils to series wiring if there were not already. Each have two sets of coils inside. After testing the existing switch with this and liking what I'd done, it was time to have a go at the crazy plan in my OP. Tech support were superb and I have sourced the same high quality switches that Dingwall use. That has saved me worry about making sure they fit physically too. The main thing was finding a switch that would suit my schematic I'd mapped out.

The four settings I mapped out first ended up being the ones I am going to keep as I've been so pleased with the results. They are:

1. Middle and Bridge in series - Sounds like a fat tone MM pickup!
2. Neck and Bridge in series - I like this one - it's like a jazz bass on steroids!
3. Neck and Middle in series - My neck pickup is one of the 'P Tone' models. This setting adds low end and low-mid hugeness to the typical P sound.
4. All pickups in series - well, you would, wouldn't you!!! It's big!

The thing to note is that I did a bit of homework first to ensure that I wasn't going to end up with a mushy bass tone. My AB1 is an Alder body with Maple neck and Bird's Eye fretboard. It is naturally bright. The pickups themselves are balanced and have tons of clarity and finally the Glockenklang 3 band on board is capable of some real hifi as well as a bold low end extension. I knew that I wouldn't suffer from any weird passive loading effects in active mode, being as the preamp would also act as a buffer; those extra low mids and possible roll off of top end would easily be balanced with the choice of EQ. It was more luck than judgement if I am honest and that's why I bought a handful of switches on the off chance that I would want to prototype some different settings.

The great news as I've said is that it all went to plan tonally first time (despite a mistake with my wiring initially. More haste less speed Dan!) I always liked the serial setting from the original switch on this bass, so I wanted to try the other pickup settings too. I've retained the passive mode too and all the qualities you'd expect are right there. Have I improved the Dingwall AB1? Well, some have said that their experiences of Dingwall basses was a little too clean for their liking. I think these settings allow you to access a bit of old school thump - but with added punch from the bass's own tonal qualities and EQ. My bass is now known as DV1!

[attachment=181637:ABI5Front.jpg]

[KiOgon]

Great job Dood!

[Dood]

Thank you! - and thank you for the offer of help too! I made sure I sat down, took my time and didn't rush each stage.

[HowieBass]

Well played sir! I think a Dingwall Veall Special might be called for!