Hiring a man with a PA for larger gigs - Pros and Cons?

[Truckstop]

Hello all,

So I'm in a band and we haven't got any money to get started on the PA ladder. We've got a little powered mixer and a couple of passive 12" tops and that's it. Suitable for small pubs, but with bigger gigs on the horizon we'd be looking for something that the whole band could go through.

None of us have experience with live sound either so we were wondering about the ins and outs of teaming up with a man with PA for large, self contained gigs (weddings, functions and the like). How much could we be expected to pay? What are the pros and cons?

Cheers!

Alex

[JTUK]

Depends what you want supplied.. and what type of gear..?

If you want 16 channels, snake, all mics and stands, cables and monitors
all transported and set-up, you'll probably be looking at a min of 4k out front
and £250 a night..???
And that price might just get you over the likes of HK, which isn't bad, and should probably be
your base standard.

[stingrayPete1977]

Trouble is its another person that needs to be free for the gig dates, even a trio can be an arse finding dates we can all do. Good used gear bought between the band is the best way imo, hire a cheap community centre for a 4 or 5 hour session purely to learn how it all works and make it clear that is the purpose of the practice not 4 hours of playing with every knob on the guitarist multi fx unit! You could even pay someone or get a fellow basschatter to come and help explain it all, colour code all the leads and make an idiots guide and laminate it, keep it all in a tidy box etc.

Every band has a limit where outside help is required, knowing the venues and what will be needed is a must imo, no point hiring a sound crew only to realise your pa would have been fine or turning up to a huge venue with your passive 12s because the drummer said "its not that big from what I remember" lol.

We hire a big bass bin and an amp/crossover unit from our local place if we think we need it, he charges us £20 a go.

I already had a Mackie profx12 desk when I joined the trio, the guitarist had an LD System stage pa thing that acts as a sub and our stage monitoring so we bought a power amp and a pair of mint but used Mackie 12"tops with covers already fitted between us. The amp belongs to the guitarist and the cabs owe us £100 each if we split up, tbh I'd buy the two shares out even though they have paid for themselves which I'm sure they would be happy with.

Edited December 9, 2014 by stingrayPete1977

[deepbass5]

JTUK is about right on his pricing - but a difficult situation. There is a thread running at present about a band split and who owns and owes what to who. I have been there and for the last twenty odd years have owned everything. PA monitors Lights etc. You may be some way off from this but I feel that is where you need to be, to make gigs pay. If you are close to the guitarist and feel any future line up would be you two + xx then maybe split the cost invest in Bass bins next to go with the 12" tops for big venues. This was my approach, basically a PA or PA's to suit venue size Restaurant to civic hall. Next prob is do you need or intend to have someone mixing - I do that as well as play bass. Not ideal at all, but we seem to be very professional about volume and are not trying to be Stadium prog rock stars in a pub environment. good luck

[Truckstop]

Well, I did look already at hiring additional PA stuff for larger gigs but then we'd end up spending £300 and still wouldn't have a clue how to rig it up efficiently or make us sound half decent. AND move it all about! TBH £250 sounds well alright actually. It'd only be for a few months until we could afford our own top spec PA.

We really would need everything: subs, tops, monitors, stands, cables, mics etc

Truckstop

[JTUK]

Dry hire rates... typically in your neck of the woods.
I think you could get an engr for that as well if you had regular work to offer...
[url="http://www.nicepeopleproductions.com/PA_Hire/pa_hire.htm"]http://www.nicepeopl...ire/pa_hire.htm[/url]

edit... for some reason google St Albans came out Norwich..???
but I think the sums stack up.
To get an engr and transport for £250-ish you may have to scale down on the
quality of kit... but since the engr has to work with it, that shouldn't be a big problem.
You want to be getting away from Mackie and into and beyond the HK pro systems..
and you may have to find a freelance engr to do it.. ie cheaper..!!
We moan about a QSC/RCF rig for £180 local but it seems a good enough deal.
To buy that rig would set you back over £4k at new prices with SH desk and
mics that aren't that special..
That is why hire is better as you'll get goodies like a digital desk and 50mtr snake
and an engr to help set it up, break it down and do that crap the other end as well...!!

Edited December 9, 2014 by JTUK

[blue]

The whole PA thing can be tricky for bar bands. Most bar bands use very little sound support. We catch a lot of grief from other bands because we travel with full PA snake, 2 powered subs, ect ect. It's what we want and it's part of the service we offer. Now in the summer when it's festival and fair season those type of gigs usually provide pro sound and lights


I'm very lucky, our band leaders husband runs our sound and lights. He's great, and it's so nice to have a young guy that can trouble shoot on the fly. There have been times when I have my whole rig set up and I have no sound. I call him he comes up checks out my board and all connections. He usually says;

[i]"Your volume on your bass is turned completely down or your bass isn't plugged in." [/i]

Blue

Edited December 9, 2014 by blue

[geoham]

There's a couple of guys I use in Glasgow.
Provide a reasonably sized setup for around £100. Works perfectly for us when we do weddings or functions - all set up and delivered for us, minimal fuss.

For us to buy something similar would obviously cost well in to four figures, but for us the big problem would be transport and storage - we don't gig enough to justify a van.

[crez5150]

Alex... I part run a sound company based out of Ongar in Essex. Our charges are from £175 for a basic 24 channel desk, 2 x subs/2 x high packs plus a couple of monitors and an engineer (4kw) which would cover up to Herts.... maybe a bit more dependant on distance.

We have a selection of systems from two speakers on stands up to 12 a side Line array (Electrovoice), so can cover most bases.

let me know if you need our help - [email protected] 07702 164183

[Truckstop]

Excellent! I've saved your details, will be in touch in the new year. Happy to support a BCers business

Cheers

Alex

[mike257]

If you're ever coming up to the North West I'd happily oblige. I'm based in Liverpool with a 3.2kW HK rig which (despite what JTUK might tell you) sounds absolutely bloody brilliant. The feedback I get from the function bands I work with suggests that it's a worthwhile cost to them. I just wish I didn't get stuck doing it for my own bloody bands, must be lovely to just leave it to someone else to worry about!

[Truckstop]

Cheers Mike, I will do!

Alex

[discreet]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1418154466' post='2627511']
[i]"Your volume on your bass is turned completely down or your bass isn't plugged in." [/i]
[/quote]

Ha! I've also had [i]"You haven't plugged your speaker cable into your cab".[/i]

[JTUK]

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1418344502' post='2629485']
If you're ever coming up to the North West I'd happily oblige. I'm based in Liverpool with a 3.2kW HK rig which (despite what JTUK might tell you) sounds absolutely bloody brilliant. The feedback I get from the function bands I work with suggests that it's a worthwhile cost to them. I just wish I didn't get stuck doing it for my own bloody bands, must be lovely to just leave it to someone else to worry about!
[/quote]

I think HK is the min standard of hire-in gear, tbh...even if they aren't the company they were. I'd have no problem if HK was the spec but that would need to reflected in the price. It isn't Nexo or EAW for example, and we can do £4k with our own P.A and pay ourselves £100 each the 'hire fees' to the two principle P,.A holders, but I think they do decent enough stuff..just not for us as we have that range covered. If we needed 6k and couldn't afford the step up to Nexo, then HK Actor/L5 is good enough.

[bassfunk]

We decided not to go down the PA for big gigs route when we started. We have a Mackie system that does the job. But for most gigs we hired in. I contacted a local PA company had them do a couple of gigs, then negotiated a Base price plus fuel for an engineer, Turbosound system and lighting. Over the years we've built our PA system up and now we use ours for 50% of gigs. I'd say hire in for now, the costs of transporting, storing and maintaining a big PA system are pretty big, if you only use it a couple of times a month is it really cost effective?