Warwick (do they actually sell any basses?)

[40hz]

What has happened to Warwick? Always been a longtime fan of them (all began with Stuart Zender) and always GAS'd hard for a Streamer Stage 1/2, but in recent years the company seems to have fallen off the map a bit. I was looking at brand new prices for the German made models and literally cannot believe the prices. I'm being serious when I say (in the UK at least) they surely must struggle to sell more than 5-10 at those prices?! a NT thumb for £3700!! A Streamer Stage II for £4400!!! Even the Bolt on Thumb is £2200. I remember when I started playing in 2004 when they were £1100 ish. Thats such a huge mark up in ten years. (I understand inflation, but that's insane)

It's now dominated by the Rockbass line, which are fine instruments in their own right I guess, but essentially £400-£800 for a Chinese made budget-line that sound NOTHING like the basses they are supposed to be aping. At least Squiers sound exactly like Fenders, Sterling by Musicman sound 99% like real Musicman's etc etc.

Then there was the Pro Line Series (which looked a step in the right direction), which were around for 2-3 years then disappeared completely?

So what's the deal? If i were after a Streamer for example, I certainly wouldn't be paying the German price, I wouldn't get a Rockbass version because it's nothing liike a real Streamer, the Pro series has disappeared. So, 2nd hand is the way forward!

On that note, off to perv on ebay at some Stage Ones

(Sorry for my stream of conciousness post)

Edited December 10, 2014 by 40hz

[LukeFRC]

More than the non custom Foderas... and the prices on them get people riled up on basschat more than preferential cab handles....

secondhand is the way to go!

[Cameronj279]

There is the Pro Series instruments which as far as I'm aware is almost like an inbetween stage for the Rockbass and German made Warwicks. From what I've heard the Bubinga Corvette STD is just as good as the German ones (which are fantastic basses if you have a back made of steel).

I think the reason their prices have went up so much was due to drastically increasing the amount of time they spent on creating each bass. I could be wrong but I'm sure someone more educated will correct me .

Great basses and they do have something that no other brands have (That "Warwick Growl"). Short of buying a custom bass a lot of the time I don't see a point in buying new. Especially when it definitely is a buyers market and has been for some time now.

[CamdenRob]

I recently aquired then moved on a Thumb NT 6 which would retail new at well over £4K... I think it held its own against other basses in that price bracket.

But yes I do take your point... I would imagine that a company like Warwicks business model would revolve around shifting multiple units at lower margains and I can't imagin they actually sell many new instruments at these prices?

Maybe they have boosted the price of their German models in order to avoid any confusion whatsoever with their cheaper lines? The whole Fender thing does get very blurred as to what's a quality instrument and whats mass produced to a price point with MIA, MIJ, MIM, MIC... then of course all the squires...

Edited December 10, 2014 by CamdenRob

[FuNkShUi]

I havent played any of the newer Warwicks, so i can't comment on whether the quality is better/worse.
But i would say if you are thinking of investing in a Warwick. i'd go second hand.
I have a '87 NT Stage 1 Streamer, and someone described it to me like the Swiss army knife of basses, and i couldnt agree more.
Its so versatile, i love it.
I also have a '89 NT Thumb. Again, a fantastic bass, but a bit more "marmite".

[40hz]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1418211703' post='2627949']
More than the non custom Foderas... and the prices on them get people riled up on basschat more than preferential cab handles....

secondhand is the way to go!
[/quote]

[40hz]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1418211881' post='2627954']
I recently aquired then moved on a Thumb NT 6 which would retail new at well over £4K... I think it held its own against other basses in that price bracket.

But yes I do take your point... I would imagine that a company like Warwicks business model would revolve around shifting multiple units at lower margains and I can't imagin they actually sell many new instruments at these prices?

Maybe they have boosted the price of their German models in order to avoid any confusion whatsoever with their cheaper lines? The whole Fender thing does get very blurred as to what's a quality instrument and whats mass produced to a price point with MIA, MIJ, MIM, MIC... then of course all the squires...
[/quote]

I would agree that Fender's line up is a jumbled mess, on the flipside, I couldn't even tell you what even Warwicks line up is outside of the Rockbasses.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='40hz' timestamp='1418213002' post='2627973']
I would agree that Fender's line up is a jumbled mess, on the flipside, I couldn't even tell you what even Warwicks line up is outside of the Rockbasses.
[/quote]

True... I'm not sure myself to be honest.... I think it's the German stuff at the top, then a line made in korea (also quality instruments), then the cheaper rockbass models.

[40hz]

The Pro line isn't even sold over here is it?

[Bo0tsy]

Thomann still sell the Warwick PS (Pro-Series) range. I'm not sure where these are made and they don't seem to be much different in price to the Rockbass range?? If you look on Warwick's website the Korean Pro-Series range is now all under "Discontinued Basses" so perhaps they've stopped producing basses in Sth Korea? I have a German built Corvette $$ which is a fantastic bass with a great range of sounds, but I also have Chinese built Bootsy Space Bass and the build quality on that is on a par with the German bass and it has that famous Warwick growl. When I bought the Bootsy bass it was described as a Rockbass but now it's on Warwick's website as an 'Artist Line' bass, so Warwick have definitely been rebranding things.

[DogHammer]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1418211793' post='2627951']
From what I've heard the Bubinga Corvette STD is just as good as the German ones (which are fantastic basses if you have a back made of steel).

[/quote]

This is the reason I had to get rid of my German Corvette $$ NT Bubinga, even though it was a fantastic bass, I think its caused me long term back issues!

[skej21]

Nearly as poorly managed and overpriced as R***********s these days!! ;-)

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='DogHammer' timestamp='1418217102' post='2628036']
This is the reason I had to get rid of my German Corvette $$ NT Bubinga, even though it was a fantastic bass, I think its caused me long term back issues!
[/quote]

To put into perspective how heavy the corvette was for me. The corvette weighed near enough double of my current bass! A real shame too as it sounded absolutely fantastic!

[Skol303]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1418217400' post='2628044']
To put into perspective how heavy the corvette was for me. The corvette weighed near enough double of my current bass! A real shame too as it sounded absolutely fantastic!
[/quote]
[font=Helvetica][size=3]
[size=4]Is your current bass also bubinga? ‘Cos bubinga is one helluva dense and weighty wood.[/size][/size][/font]
[font=Helvetica][size=3]
[size=4]If you compare it against something like swamp ash, for example, the difference in weight will be huge.[/size][/size][/font]
[font=Helvetica][size=3]
[size=4]For instance, I have a 5-string swamp ash Corvette standard (an old German one) and it’s lighter than most 4-strings. I imagine it has a different tone to bubinga, however.[/size][/size][/font]

[Bo0tsy]

My Corvette $$ is swamp ash (with a bird-eyed poplar top) - Swamp ash gives it a nice bright and punchy tone, and it's light! Bubinga is definitely a heavier denser wood. I reckon any bass made of bubinga would be pretty heavy.

[molan]

The Warwick brand will have three core variants in 2015.

At the lower end is the Rockbass range made in China.

The Pro Series was made in Korea but has been discontinued. Thomann are knocking out the remains of them at very cheap prices.

The new Pro Series will be essentially made in Germany (over 90% German I believe and certainly enough to pass EU regs as being "made in Germany") and will be available in the UK from around April next year.

At the higher end there's the Handcrafted in Germany range:
Warwick series
LTD Editions
Signature series

Also sitting in this bracket is the Custom Shop.

Almost all of the Handcrafted, and Custom, range is built to order with a wait time of circa 8 weeks but can be as short as 4 weeks (damned efficient these Germans!).

Any info on pricing or models feel free to PM me

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1418218402' post='2628059']

[font=Helvetica][size=3][size=4]Is your current bass also bubinga? ‘Cos bubinga is one helluva dense and weighty wood.[/size][/size][/font]

[/quote]

Not entirely bubinga but it does have a bubinga topwood.

Funnily enough, the lightest bass I've ever owned was also a warwick thumb. I didn't weigh it but I would have been surprised if it reached the 3 kilo mark!

Had a look into the Ash Corvettes but they just didn't have that same character which made the bubinga model so nice.

[Bo0tsy]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1418225032' post='2628139']
The Warwick brand will have three core variants in 2015.

At the lower end is the Rockbass range made in China.

The Pro Series was made in Korea but has been discontinued. Thomann are knocking out the remains of them at very cheap prices.

The new Pro Series will be essentially made in Germany (over 90% German I believe and certainly enough to pass EU regs as being "made in Germany") and will be available in the UK from around April next year.

At the higher end there's the Handcrafted in Germany range:
Warwick series
LTD Editions
Signature series

Also sitting in this bracket is the Custom Shop.

Almost all of the Handcrafted, and Custom, range is built to order with a wait time of circa 8 weeks but can be as short as 4 weeks (damned efficient these Germans!).

Any info on pricing or models feel free to PM me
[/quote]
That's useful info - thanks Molan. Warwick also advertise a (Chinese made) Artist Line range, so am assuming these will slot somewhere in between the Rockbass' and 'New Pro-Series' ranges?

[40hz]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1418225032' post='2628139']
The Warwick brand will have three core variants in 2015.

At the lower end is the Rockbass range made in China.

The Pro Series was made in Korea but has been discontinued. Thomann are knocking out the remains of them at very cheap prices.

The new Pro Series will be essentially made in Germany (over 90% German I believe and certainly enough to pass EU regs as being "made in Germany") and will be available in the UK from around April next year.

At the higher end there's the Handcrafted in Germany range:
Warwick series
LTD Editions
Signature series

Also sitting in this bracket is the Custom Shop.

Almost all of the Handcrafted, and Custom, range is built to order with a wait time of circa 8 weeks but can be as short as 4 weeks (damned efficient these Germans!).

Any info on pricing or models feel free to PM me
[/quote]

That's good to hear that the Pro models are being German made! Any reasoning why the range was so shortlived (in being made in Korea?) And also are they likely to be easy to find?

Edited December 10, 2014 by 40hz

[molan]

[quote name='40hz' timestamp='1418228679' post='2628204']
That's good to hear that the Pro models are being German made! Any reasoning why the range was so shortlived (in being made in Korea?) And also are they likely to be easy to find?
[/quote]

I don't know why they were discontinued I'm afraid. Having seen customer reactions in-store to anything made in the far east vs European made instruments my guess would be that having a 'made in Germany' badge will make them easier to sell and they won't depreciate as fast - this is purely personal supposition though!

It does still surprise sometimes when people play a few instruments in the shop and say how much they like a particular one but then buy something different because of the name on the headstock or the country of manufacture. I can understand some of the reasons though - having spent most of my life working in big ad agencies I know a fair bit about the power of brands

The new ones have quite a limited run to begin with but I'm hoping there will be some new retail outlets stocking them at launch next year

[dmccombe7]

My 89 Thumb NT retailed at around £1100 when i bought it in 1989 yet in 2004 they were still around same price and then all of a sudden with the run on various custom basses the Thumb is now £3700

Some change however the 89 Thumb is one gorgeous bass to play. Compared to the Rockbass range its obviously a different world.
Don't think i would spend that kind of money on one nowadays although my Overwater was circa £3k 4 yrs ago but that was handmade to my liking plus a 6 stringer.

This is all very daunting when you step back and look at what bass is my "TO GO" bass of a Fender Jazz -- at the moment.
Dave

[molan]

[quote name='Bo0tsy' timestamp='1418228533' post='2628201']
That's useful info - thanks Molan. Warwick also advertise a (Chinese made) Artist Line range, so am assuming these will slot somewhere in between the Rockbass' and 'New Pro-Series' ranges?
[/quote]

Ah, I always forget the Chinese Artist instruments!

There's currently five of these available:
Bootsy
Trujillo
P-Nut
Bailey
Bruce

Some of these are quite a bit more than the 'everyday' Rockbass models - especially the Steve Bailey 6.

I see you have a Warwick & a Washburn Bootsy bass. I used to have the Traben version, great fun but a bit unwieldy!

[BigRedX]

I think the whole Warwick range is somewhat overpriced and rightly or wrongly the far-eastern models are seen to be far too expensive for their country of manufacture.

In a way it's sad that where ann instrument is built is still more important than the overall quality of said instrument. I bought one of the Thomann discounted Star Basses although even I would have paused at the original asking price of around £1800 despite the fact that in many ways my MiK Warwick is a superior instrument to the German versions of the same model that I had previously tried.

The woods might not be as premium but IMO the solid colours of the MiK models suit the Star Bass design far more than some fancy wood grain. Overall the fit and finish of the MiK was comparable with the German versions and the lack of sharp fingerboard edges that the German models sported was a distinct bonus.

[40hz]

Country of origin really doesn't bother me personally but I think most peoples misgivings with Asian produced lines is that the manufacturer has clearly moved to these places to cut cost. And quite often the finished product will carry a high-ish price tag. So I think as consumers, a lot of people feel like they are being ripped off more-so. For example the MiK Wawicks, the Pro Series Thumb was around £800 from Thomann if I recall. It didnt sport the wenge neck or exotic woods either. IMO if Fender can ship their wares across the Atlantic and still put a price point of £550 on Mexi-Jazzes. The Pro series with even cheaper labour rates shouldn't be up at that price point it was. That doesn't just apply to Warwick, any brand that has a cheaper line in Asia.

[Ziphoblat]

If you can find a standard Corvette from pre-2010, it will be made in Germany. I got mine for a steal - made in 2009 (so has the slim neck too). Beautiful instrument, killer sound and playability, and is just a quality thing to behold. Got it in mint condition for less than half the retail price. Bubinga body, Wenge fingerboard, and the neck is either Ovangkol or Wenge.

Only downside is that it's bloody heavy. I've never weighed it, but it can't be far off the combined weight of both my Fender Jazz basses, even with the considerably smaller body. That's bubinga for you, I guess. Worth it though.