blue Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1418383338' post='2629706'] As gig organiser for our band I normally speak to the landlord after we have packed away (providing he does not look too busy). If he doesn't offer a date there and then I usually drop him a facebook message or email (if I have communicated that way before with him/her) just briefly saying how much we enjoyed the gig and would like to play there again. If no reply to that, then a phone call a few days later. There is also the opposite dilemma where you play in a right s**t hole and they ask you back. We have that problem at the moment where the landlord of a local pub is a lovely guy but his pub we played in earlier this year is very rough. He kept ringing asking for more dates before I had to admit to him we didn't want to play there due to feeling very uncomfortable. I don't think I have ever seen the same band play there twice! [/quote] Understood, we have a few clubs/bars that I don't enjoy playing not because they are rough venues. Because they are not established as a live music venue. Usually the clientele does not want or appreciate live music. Hence, your plating to a non responsive uninterested crowd. Why the owners want to book us is a mystery, we take it because we want the $$$$. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1418410314' post='2630074'] That might be a cultural or regional thing. Over here, even if you packed the place and the alcohol sales went through the roof the venue is not going to call back. Blue [/quote] Don't get that at all..... a packed venue and alcohol sales thru the roof is the whole point of it.. If a venue didn't take advantage of a band that could do that, another one would and probably hurt the other venues attendences... On certain saturdays, there could be 8-9 venues/pubs putting on live music in town and another town 15-20 miles up the road doing the same. The better draws hurt attendences/sales in other venues/pubs. If a band is getting those sort of turn-outs, if isn't long before they sell tickets at the event and take a bigger fee.. A good band can get a bar to turn over £3k relatively easily and they then want a bigger slice of the pie.. And LL of pubs and venues will chase the bands that can do this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damonjames Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 [quote name='Les' timestamp='1418333375' post='2629354'] On the night via smartphone. Usually multiples for the next year. [/quote] Les and I are in the same circuit, this is how we do it also. This is our first year out as a band, and two venues alone have offered us three dates for next year. Strike while the iron is hit if possible, but often the person responsible for the booking is not there in the nite. In this instance you have no choice but to chase in the days that follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418423129' post='2630239'] Don't get that at all..... a packed venue and alcohol sales thru the roof is the whole point of it.. If a venue didn't take advantage of a band that could do that, another one would and probably hurt the other venues attendences... On certain saturdays, there could be 8-9 venues/pubs putting on live music in town and another town 15-20 miles up the road doing the same. The better draws hurt attendences/sales in other venues/pubs. If a band is getting those sort of turn-outs, if isn't long before they sell tickets at the event and take a bigger fee.. A good band can get a bar to turn over £3k relatively easily and they then want a bigger slice of the pie.. And LL of pubs and venues will chase the bands that can do this... [/quote] Your using business logic 101.Managers/Owners of clubs and bars have their own logic that does not always follow common sense. Blue Edited December 13, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1418485732' post='2630606'] Your using business logic 101.Managers/Owners of clubs and bars have their own logic that does not always follow common sense. Blue [/quote] The thought that springs to my mind is "Why wouldn't a landlord follow up a good band?". I then think whether it's to put the ball into the band's court. If they chased the band, they'd lose their leverage. They'd be saying "I want you to play at my pub". What they more than likely want is for a band to say "We want to play at your pub", and the landlord can bargain down the price on the basis of "How much do you want to play here? How desperate are you?". And the landlord probably has a ton of bands knocking down his door looking for work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 On another, similar note, has anyone had experience with a landlord/bar manager that didn't seem keen on booking you, even though you went down really well in their venue? We have several really well established venues, and have built up a good following. A couple of years ago we got a gig at a pub in St Ives, and we rocked the place. Everyone dancing, all the feedback from the bar staff was great, the bar manager was super enthusiastic on the night, but never gave us another date, despite loads of chasing. One of his reasons was that the punters just want classic rock (we play pogues-esque folk rock). That same bar manager is now in charge of one of our established venues, and it just so happened we were already booked in for a gig there last month. The place went ballistic, as usual (we've had people crowd surfing in there before-yes in a pub with no stage) and the place must have made a fortune. We usually gig here 3 times a year, one of the venues favourite bands, and wouldn't you know, the new bar manager now isn't giving us any gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1418502261' post='2630797'] On another, similar note, has anyone had experience with a landlord/bar manager that didn't seem keen on booking you, even though you went down really well in their venue? We have several really well established venues, and have built up a good following. A couple of years ago we got a gig at a pub in St Ives, and we rocked the place. Everyone dancing, all the feedback from the bar staff was great, the bar manager was super enthusiastic on the night, but never gave us another date, despite loads of chasing. One of his reasons was that the punters just want classic rock (we play pogues-esque folk rock). That same bar manager is now in charge of one of our established venues, and it just so happened we were already booked in for a gig there last month. The place went ballistic, as usual (we've had people crowd surfing in there before-yes in a pub with no stage) and the place must have made a fortune. We usually gig here 3 times a year, one of the venues favourite bands, and wouldn't you know, the new bar manager now isn't giving us any gigs. [/quote] It happens, especially with management changes. Guys, I honestly think some managers are blind and don't attribute a successful big money night to the band. We packed a new place last night, for us the place went nuts, even the balcony was filled.This would be new business for us. I think what we did last night is worth four 2015 dates. Thing is the owners are usually not on site. Blue Edited December 13, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1418486727' post='2630618'] The thought that springs to my mind is "Why wouldn't a landlord follow up a good band?". I then think whether it's to put the ball into the band's court. If they chased the band, they'd lose their leverage. They'd be saying "I want you to play at my pub". What they more than likely want is for a band to say "We want to play at your pub", and the landlord can bargain down the price on the basis of "How much do you want to play here? How desperate are you?". And the landlord probably has a ton of bands knocking down his door looking for work. [/quote] Very astute thought, when the landlord ( as you guys call them ) come to us as bands, they're giving up leverage. It makes it a lot easier for us to quote our fee without getting into discounts. Personally, we do it in a pinch, however i do not like discounting our services. Thanks Time Stamp Blue Off topic, pic is what i'm toting to most gigs these days. My Gibson Gold Top and my Limited Edition German Made Hofner 502 Club. Edited December 13, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1418510339' post='2630868'] Thanks Time Stamp [/quote] Oh, you're welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1418486727' post='2630618'] The thought that springs to my mind is "Why wouldn't a landlord follow up a good band?". I then think whether it's to put the ball into the band's court. If they chased the band, they'd lose their leverage. They'd be saying "I want you to play at my pub". What they more than likely want is for a band to say "We want to play at your pub", and the landlord can bargain down the price on the basis of "How much do you want to play here? How desperate are you?". And the landlord probably has a ton of bands knocking down his door looking for work. [/quote] Every decent venue will have bands banging on the door.. One LL told me he 944 bands trying to get at his 150 odd slots a year. But there aren't anywhere near 20 top bands ( depends on your defintion of 'top' ) so there is a lot of dead wood in the numbers. If you are a band that can generate £3k's worth of sales during your stint or the evening, then getting over £300 should be easy. LL's don't mind spending to accumulate but it has to work like that. Maybe it would be better if bands said min fee is £250.. or whatever and accepted a bonus rather than saying £350..?? Both parties have to be confident that arrangement will work tho and you need to trust the LL. The other thing bands don't get is that their evening isn't the whole deal...and a LL will look at his music night costs over a period, and good nights subsidise bad nights and so you are all in it together in providing a good rosta.. Both it is natural that bands would only want to deal on things they can control..ie, their gig, as the content of the rosta is not their remit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 As regards LL not keen on booking you..firstly it is a two way street, secondly, we'd say 'their loss'.. We do more than enough pubs for our liking so not interested in playing places that aren't keen...etc etc . And even the most stupid LL is going to call the more successful draws as they will be in trouble soon enough without good nights. But there are plenty of pubs we wont touch. I am not playing tiny pokey pubs, sh*t-holes or rough pubs. Basically, anywhere we wouldn't take our partners is out... and we have a two pub per town rule so we target the two best that we can get in. I'll be in a band, but I wont be in a pub band exclusively as they just are too much work for the money..so there needs to be something else about them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418549032' post='2630998'] Every decent venue will have bands banging on the door.. One LL told me he 944 bands trying to get at his 150 odd slots a year. But there aren't anywhere near 20 top bands ( depends on your defintion of 'top' ) so there is a lot of dead wood in the numbers. If you are a band that can generate £3k's worth of sales during your stint or the evening, then getting over £300 should be easy. LL's don't mind spending to accumulate but it has to work like that. Maybe it would be better if bands said min fee is £250.. or whatever and accepted a bonus rather than saying £350..?? Both parties have to be confident that arrangement will work tho and you need to trust the LL. The other thing bands don't get is that their evening isn't the whole deal...and a LL will look at his music night costs over a period, and good nights subsidise bad nights and so you are all in it together in providing a good rosta.. Both it is natural that bands would only want to deal on things they can control..ie, their gig, as the content of the rosta is not their remit. [/quote] I agree, but how about this. The band that can go to the landlord and tell him with no exception the band will pack his place and his sales will increase from the previous Friday or Saturday night by 25%. Most bands can't make this claim, we can't. And then say if it doesn't happen, you don't pay. I guess you would really have to trust the landlord, I would not use this approach with a sleeze. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418549671' post='2631007'] As regards LL not keen on booking you..firstly it is a two way street, secondly, we'd say 'their loss'.. We do more than enough pubs for our liking so not interested in playing places that aren't keen...etc etc . And even the most stupid LL is going to call the more successful draws as they will be in trouble soon enough without good nights. But there are plenty of pubs we wont touch. I am not playing tiny pokey pubs, sh*t-holes or rough pubs. Basically, anywhere we wouldn't take our partners is out... and we have a two pub per town rule so we target the two best that we can get in. I'll be in a band, but I wont be in a pub band exclusively as they just are too much work for the money..so there needs to be something else about them... [/quote] Interesting comment, I feel the same way about sh*t-holes ( you guys have those in the UK too? ). However, I also don't like nice places with unresponsive, unappreciative crowds. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Over here in the States, some bars/clubs won't talk to bands. They only deal with agencies and will book whoever the agency refers. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1418585291' post='2631473'] Interesting comment, I feel the same way about sh*t-holes ( you guys have those in the UK too? ). [/quote] sh*t-holes can be great. They're more likely to have a one-man-and-a-guitar kind of entertainment, but it can still good fun. The bar is still crap, but the music makes up for it. I've been to real dives before, and they won't even get live music. They won't even turn on the radio sometimes! It's really depressing. And the landlords run crying about how they don't get enough trade at the weekends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1418585076' post='2631467'] I agree, but how about this. The band that can go to the landlord and tell him with no exception the band will pack his place and his sales will increase from the previous Friday or Saturday night by 25%. Most bands can't make this claim, we can't. And then say if it doesn't happen, you don't pay. I guess you would really have to trust the landlord, I would not use this approach with a sleeze. Blue [/quote] I am all for this...but the band better be as good as its boast. It's a bet.... and you'll only take it on if you think you'll win. But... it is easier money doing a party for 3 times the pub fee... all you have to do is seal the deal in the first place as the party will supply the audience. Ticketed gigs are fine..but there is a lot of pressure on selling 350 tickets for acts that can play in a local-ish pub a few months later. Out of all the LL's we work for..... we tend to have a very good rapport with them. We tend to do our homework and know someone who knows the place and the LL... and will know of its reputaion, just like we expect them to have checked us out. And if we do make a mistake with the venue..we only do it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1418585450' post='2631477'] Over here in the States, some bars/clubs won't talk to bands. They only deal with agencies and will book whoever the agency refers. Blue [/quote] An agency is only the conduit... we know the ones we use and will have met and liked them beforehand. Altho.....we did wonder where this 'events booker' came from at a recent function and wondered how they earnt their money ..but then it was a investment bankers party so plenty of money to throw around. It turned out that one of the partners booked us and then got them ( event booker/management company ) to turn up and run the night.. easy money, I'd say and yes, we did undercharge .. but they'll book us direct again..and then just get someone in and run the night again...so a bit of a partnership there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418590404' post='2631545'] I am all for this...but the band better be as good as its boast. It's a bet.... and you'll only take it on if you think you'll win. But... it is easier money doing a party for 3 times the pub fee... all you have to do is seal the deal in the first place as the party will supply the audience. Ticketed gigs are fine..but there is a lot of pressure on selling 350 tickets for acts that can play in a local-ish pub a few months later.[/quote] Parties are great, however it's not the kind of repeat business bands nned to survive. Selling tickets, over hear that's strictly for the Originals, [i]"were trying to make it"[/i] bands. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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