Annoying Twit Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) EDIT WARNING: Murphy's law strikes again. I just checked the bass, and the buzz on the bottom three frets was markedly reduced. Only the G was buzzing. I took another quarter turn out of the truss rod, and the G stopped buzzing. I'll check to see how it's playing tonight after giving the neck time to settle. However, while it's less urgent than before, I must admit that I would still like to know the answer to my question below, if only for reasons of curiosity and potential future use. [Original post starts here] Is there a recommended way to temporarily shim up a nut solely to check if setup problems are due to the nut being cut too low. I have a Harley Benton fretless acoustic bass. It is one of the 'Decoration Only' basses. There is buzz on the first three frets. Visually, I can't see anything wrong with the neck that would be causing it, but the action is very low down there. I'm trying loosening the truss rod to see if it's due to the neck being too straight, but currently believe that the nut is cut too low. The bass is strung with Fender flats. Clearly I could cut some cardboard shims and put them under the strings, to see if this cures the buzz and find out if I like the action set up that way. I'm sure that will do horrible things to sustain and tuning stability, but would expect it to give me an indication as to how a higher nut would change things. Are there any better methods of doing this experiment? If I need to raise the nut slots, I must admit that I'm starting to feel a bit hesitant to go the superglue and baking soda route. I'm tempted to change the nut. If I bought a fretted nut, wouldn't that be cut too high? I could then file it down bit by bit. I don't have official fret files, but have some files that I've used for nuts in the past. The alternative would be to shim the nut with a piece of plastic (e.g. cut up credit card). What glue would I use to reattach the nut and shim? Edited December 12, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You could tap the nut out and use a cut piece of wood veneer underneath it - and don't use any glue to start with as it's a trial and you'll probably want to change it at some stage soon. The string tension will hold it in place. However, if the original nut's been put in with a lot of glue then there's a chance of pulling a lump out of the edge of the finger board. What I tend to do is turn the bass on it's front, and place the edge of a 1/8" chisel exactly on the join of the nut and fingerboard and then give it a light tap or two with a small hammer to try and move it vertically upwards. This tells you how well it's stuck. If it doesn't come out with a light tap then I cut it out, which isn't an option for you. Go the 'paper under the strings' route to start with, just to check to see if the nut is too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Thanks. BTW: Major D'oh moment. The nut height can't cause buzzing when a note is fretted. See username for explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Check the nut slot depths by fretting every string at the 3rd fret and check for the slightest gap between the string and the 1st fret. If there's no gap then the slots are too deep. A large gap means the slots aren't deep enough. But you were right to realise that fret buzz on the frets nearest the nut are usually down to too little neck relief. If you ever plan to replace a nut; to get a precut nut down to the right height I think it's easier to file the bottom of the nut rather than deepen the string slots. That way you can use a flat file or sheets of sandpaper and hold the nut when sanding the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1418380865' post='2629667'] Thanks. BTW: Major D'oh moment. The nut height can't cause buzzing when a note is fretted. See username for explanation. [/quote] If the neck is straight or slightly back-bowed, you can get buzzes from behind the fretted note if the nut is cut low. Though that usually happens higher up the neck rather than at the first few frets, so is probably not what's going on with this bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Thanks muchly, both of you. I suspect that the most recent truss rod adjustment will have fixed the problem. BTW: I can't follow your method to check the heights of the strings, as the bass is fretless. Edited December 12, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1418373435' post='2629578'] (...) There is buzz on the first three frets. (...) [/quote] [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1418384249' post='2629736'] (...) ...the bass is fretless. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1418385688' post='2629754'] [/quote] Yep, this thread is far from my finest hour. I did mention 'fretless' in the OP, but then should have said "there is a buzz on the first three fret positions". No, maybe "when I fret the first three notes". No. What terminology is used here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1418388839' post='2629802'] Yep, this thread is far from my finest hour. I did mention 'fretless' in the OP, but then should have said "there is a buzz on the first three fret positions". No, maybe "when I fret the first three notes". No. What terminology is used here? [/quote] Don't know, i just posted for the fun. Regarding your problem, any buzz you're hearing isn't related to nut action unless it occours when you play an open string. Truss-rod and bridge saddle adjustment will solve it. Leave the nut as it is for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1418388839' post='2629802'] Yep, this thread is far from my finest hour. I did mention 'fretless' in the OP, but then should have said "there is a buzz on the first three fret positions". No, maybe "when I fret the first three notes". No. What terminology is used here? [/quote] Strictly speaking you 'stop' a string on a fretless instrument, hence the term 'double stop' for when you hold down two strings simultaneously and the term 'sliding stop' for when you slide the position where the string meets the fingerboard. Nut slot depth on a fretless should get the string down to very close to the surface of the fingerboard, maybe a gap of .04" or 1mm - that's about the thickness of a plastic credit card, maybe slightly less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Thanks. I knew the term 'double stop' but didn't know its derivation. Thanks for that. EDIT: Now that the neck has settled down after the second truss rod adjustment, the buzz is gone. The action is not as low as it was, but I'm not going to muck around with an acoustic bass bridge. Sorry about the poorly thought out thread. Edited December 12, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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