Problems with sight reading in bass clef

[mike313]

Hi,

I am working on my sight reading and I have a big problem caused by the years I spent playing saxophone and reading in treble clef when I was a child.

Even after many years of bass playing I realized that everytime I read a bass part I am actually still insta-translating from the treble clef. Example: if I see a C note in bass clef in my mind I will initially read that as an A (as it is in treble clef) and then immediately translate it in my mind to a C.

This is working fine in the sense that I can read with good speed and accuracy, but obviously it is slowing me down a lot.

Does anybody had the same problem? How could I go about "erasing" treble clef from my brain?
I thought about writing like a thousand of times every note on paper with the relative correct (bass clef) name aside, to try and hack my brain into reformulating his musical notes patterns.

[chris_b]

Give it another 20 years and you'll be fine.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='mike313' timestamp='1418656999' post='2632028']
Does anybody had the same problem? How could I go about "erasing" treble clef from my brain?
[/quote]

Yes, I've never been able to read bass clef with any fluency as an adult, having learnt treble clef as a child.

[Bilbo]

Just keep going. 20m pianists can't all be geniuses!!

[Drax]

Unfortunately no shortcuts. Just repetition to hammer this home. Transcribing from instrument to stave helped me more than trying to sight read and play (if that makes sense..)

[stingrayPete1977]

A few hours on this might help, come back when you are a bass clef wizard
[url="http://www.studybass.com/tools/bass-clef-notes/"]http://www.studybass.com/tools/bass-clef-notes/[/url]

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='mike313' timestamp='1418656999' post='2632028']
Hi,

I am working on my sight reading and I have a big problem caused by the years I spent playing saxophone and reading in treble clef when I was a child.

Even after many years of bass playing I realized that everytime I read a bass part I am actually still insta-translating from the treble clef. Example: if I see a C note in bass clef in my mind I will initially read that as an A (as it is in treble clef) and then immediately translate it in my mind to a C.

This is working fine in the sense that I can read with good speed and accuracy, but obviously it is slowing me down a lot.

Does anybody had the same problem? How could I go about "erasing" treble clef from my brain?
I thought about writing like a thousand of times every note on paper with the relative correct (bass clef) name aside, to try and hack my brain into reformulating his musical notes patterns.
[/quote]

We share this same problem. I may as well tatoo "practice, practice, practice" on the back of my hand

[ambient]

A friend of mine is a classical trombone player, he's able to read both fluently.

I too find it awkward switching between the 2, but I don't often have to read treble clef, which is why I have the problem.

[Gareth Hughes]

I'm trying to do the reverse - get better at my treble clef sightreading. . Here's something that I've found to be a help: allocate specific notes on the fingerboard to specific notes on either clef. Use middle C as a physical reference point on your neck. So for us, transposing as we do, middle C is 5th fret/G string, 10th fret/D string, etc. That then puts the 2nd line G of the treble clef to be our G note on the 12th fret/G string, and then the E on the 1st line of the treble clef is the 9th fret/G string.

So maybe it might help to think of everything beneath that first line E of the treble clef as being solely in the domain of the bass clef and beneath the 9th fret/G string note E. In other words - two ledger lines above the bass clef stave is the 9th fret/G string note E - which is the same as writing it on the first line of the treble clef.

Hope that helps.

[philparker]

It will come, just keep reading lots of simple pieces and before long you won't have to translate from one to the other, but there will always be a small bedding in period. I have played classical guitar for many years reading treble clef and sight reading at tempo, I took up double bass 2 years ago and I've probably read everyday since and now I don't have to think about it. However, when I took an exam earlier this year, I did all the singing test to treble clef, but everything else to bass.

[deepbass5]

i've been there - Trombone in brass bands on treble then I had lessons from a salvation army guy who said i need to read bass clef. so learnt to do that a fresh not transposing I think that is the key, Tenor clef was ok the usual trick knock off 2 flats and play naturals sharp I think that was it. Then there was Alto clef lets not go there. So my Trombone playing got me thinking in different camps and with bass it was applying one of those to a new instrument. So as said above just keep doing everything in bass clef for as many hours as time allows.

[fretmeister]

I got a sight reading app for my iPad.

You pick the key and time sig, or allow it to be random and it presents an exercise. You play it, then the machine will play it to you properly!

And on my phone I've got a quiz based notation wotsit where you identify notes against the clock.

They seem to help.

[Kirky]

Drax's idea of doing some written transcriptions (from treble to bass clef, and visa versa) is a good one. I went from being a violinist (treble clef) to viola player (Alto clef) and all I can say is you get there eventually. [size=4] [/size]

[Burg]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1418723453' post='2632604']
I got a sight reading app for my iPad.
[/quote]

What's the app called? Sounds really good. The problem I have with sight reading is that unless I already know the tune I haven't a clue if what I am playing is what is written. This would really help me.

[Dad3353]

Originally, the stave was 11 lines, complete. Perhaps you could try to add, by hand, the extra middle C and treble lines above the first bar of your score..? This would serve as a visual reminder that you're reading, really, from a complete, 11-line stave, but only see the bass part. If one has treble stuff to do, add the extra middle C and bass lines below the first bar, too, as a visual clue. There is no fundamental difference between the staves; it's only for convenience (not having blank lines everywhere...) that we've become used to splitting the two. Try it and see how it works for you..?

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1418658519' post='2632047'] Just keep going. 20m pianists can't all be geniuses!! [/quote]
I learnt the piano before picking up the bass; having never reached a particularly high level on it I never had to tackle much complicated bass clef stuff. (And I must admit it's a rare day I have to play bass guitar parts from a score.) I have, however, found that if I get back into practising the piano regularly, my reading improves a great deal in both clefs...so I think Bilbo's right: just keep going!

[quote name='Kirky' timestamp='1418733678' post='2632749'] Drax's idea of doing some written transcriptions (from treble to bass clef, and visa versa) is a good one. I went from being a violinist (treble clef) to viola player (Alto clef) and all I can say is you get there eventually. [size=4] [/size] [/quote]

Didn't realise people still used the alto clef! Learning something new every day...

[fatback]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1419432797' post='2639914']
Originally, the stave was 11 lines, complete. Perhaps you could try to add, by hand, the extra middle C and treble lines above the first bar of your score..? This would serve as a visual reminder that you're reading, really, from a complete, 11-line stave, but only see the bass part. If one has treble stuff to do, add the extra middle C and bass lines below the first bar, too, as a visual clue. There is no fundamental difference between the staves; it's only for convenience (not having blank lines everywhere...) that we've become used to splitting the two. Try it and see how it works for you..?
[/quote]

I'm going to try this. I think it might suit my easily befuddled brain.

Thanks

[Dad3353]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1419457940' post='2640267']...
Thanks
[/quote]
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485]

[cybertect]

[quote name='Burg' timestamp='1419416516' post='2639687']What's the app called? Sounds really good. The problem I have with sight reading is that unless I already know the tune I haven't a clue if what I am playing is what is written. This would really help me.
[/quote]

It sounds like SRMachine. I find it very handy.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/sight-reading-machine/id662692296?mt=8

http://youtu.be/IBreIMKFA5I

Edited December 28, 2014 by cybertect

[fretmeister]

That's the one!

I've also got Clef Tutor (free version) which is a note based quiz against the clock. That keeps the brain going when I'm on the train.

[Burg]

Got it, brilliant, thanks a lot.

[JamPlay]

This exists with lots of folks who shift from treble to bass clef instruments after years of reading in treble clef. For me it was trumpet, then switching to bass. As many folks here have recommended it takes time, but how to make efficient use of your shedding time is the question! Recommend reading simple parts. Primarily whole, half, then quarter note ideas. There are many books to choose from. If you get working with 8th and 16th note stuff, take each passage slowly, then build up to the groove/ tempo of the song. You will begin looking at bass clef and hearing and seeing and most importantly thinking in bass clef independently w/o having to think treble and then converting to bass... Oh man! I know how frustrating that is.. You will progress to freeing your brain up ... As someone mentioned, piano players do this regularly haha.
Just do it... Read often...and don't forget to groove... Many students forget the whole "soul" concept when reading..it's more than notes..you got to make em noteworthy!

[fatback]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1419432797' post='2639914']
Originally, the stave was 11 lines, complete. Perhaps you could try to add, by hand, the extra middle C and treble lines above the first bar of your score..? This would serve as a visual reminder that you're reading, really, from a complete, 11-line stave, but only see the bass part. If one has treble stuff to do, add the extra middle C and bass lines below the first bar, too, as a visual clue. There is no fundamental difference between the staves; it's only for convenience (not having blank lines everywhere...) that we've become used to splitting the two. Try it and see how it works for you..?
[/quote]

OK, an update on this. This tip really has made the whole thing click for me. I'd bought a pricey book on thumb position playing and abandoned it cos it was in treble clef. Back at it again now.

Cheers.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1420816859' post='2653842']
OK, an update on this. This tip really has made the whole thing click for me. I'd bought a pricey book on thumb position playing and abandoned it cos it was in treble clef. Back at it again now.

Cheers.
[/quote]
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485]

[JamPlay]

Read from books that have transcribed bass parts from songs...you want to connect your ear to the written music on the page, simultaneously learning valuable bass vocabulary..also, your ear will connect with the bass clef nomenclature....it's all doable with regular practicing...bottom line, there are more gigs out there for bass players who read! Practice reading often...that's what integrates the written music into your concept, the way your unique brain processes the ink on the staff..

Edited January 10, 2015 by JamPlay