JTUK Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Hear the line, 'pro player' used here by many and I wonder what most people think it means..? To me, all it means is that someone earns most of their wage playing music.. It is not nessecariliy anything to do with the standard that they play at... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedoghouse Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I always take it to mean professional, so someone who makes their living at it. It could be read as playing to a professional standard - however that might be measured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Well the dictionary definition says it can be either, but like you I treat it as the former definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418758569' post='2633060'] Hear the line, 'pro player' used here by many and I wonder what most people think it means..? To me, all it means is that someone earns most of their wage playing music.. It is not necessarily anything to do with the standard that they play at... [/quote] That would be my definition too. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I suppose anyone taking a payment for any service fits the criteria of offering a professional service? Our guitarist works in mental health 3 days a week and teaches music 2 days a week I'd regard him as a pro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'm not a pro, don't know theory and have a limited skill set, but sometimes get paid quite well for playing covers whilst people dance and enjoy themselves , this seems to piss off some pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) I saw an advert about Pro Toothpaste. No idea what makes a toothpaste professional. I just looked it up, and it is even better. It is Oral B Pro Expert toothpaste Edited December 16, 2014 by timmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1418759527' post='2633080'] I'm not a pro, don't know theory and have a limited skill set, but sometimes get paid quite well for playing covers whilst people dance and enjoy themselves , this seems to piss off some pros. [/quote] I am in this category if indeed a category exists for such a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1418759527' post='2633080'] I'm not a pro, don't know theory and have a limited skill set, but sometimes get paid quite well for playing covers whilst people dance and enjoy themselves , this seems to piss off some pros. [/quote] Unlike a plumber or a nurse etc a musician falls into the category of 'the arts' which has no legal requirement to be a grade 8 or anything, as long as your diary is full you are doing ok although the more strings to your bow the better obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero9 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 One who isn't anti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Making a living from teaching and/or gigging and/or recording the bass, I assume. You don't have to know theory or have a full skill set to be a pro. And you don't have to be a pro to have a pro attitude. It's a state of mind... man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Someone who doesn't use a music stand... ...or does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Slightly more seriously, I think it should be a player who earns their living from playing music - I would personally exclude teaching from this, as to me that is a completely different skill set and many great teachers would not necessarily make it as pro players just as many pro players will be awful teachers. There are of course many notable exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1418761272' post='2633126'] Slightly more seriously, I think it should be a player who earns their living from playing music - I would personally exclude teaching from this... [/quote] Why? If they're making a living from the bass then does it not count? What about luthiers and builders? They can make a living from the bass too, but not from actually playing it. What about retailers? What about the people at Bass Direct? What about Andy Baxter? What about the children? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?? Edited December 16, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) What about Sea Bass? Fishmongers make money from them. Edited December 16, 2014 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1418761543' post='2633131'] Why? If they're making a living from the bass then does it not count? What about luthiers and builders? They can make a living from the bass too, but not from actually playing it. What about retailers? What about the people at Bass Direct? What about Andy Baxter? What about the children? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?? [/quote] But the OP was about Pro Players - hopefully a huge percentage of the teacher's time will be not playing! Also, their profession is Teacher - absolutely nothing wrong with that but I still think it does not make somebody a pro player. Professional children - now there's a thought!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) When I was learning I asking my tutor if that was all he did for a living. "That and gigging most nights of the week" was his answer. "Wow. So you're a professional musician then" I replied (I was easily impressed at the time). He thought about it for a second and said, "Well yes, I suppose I am". He genuinely seemed to have never thought about it before. I think being a pro is more a state of mind. Just like there are executives who still consider themselves working class, I'm sure there are people who might strictly be semi-pro that consider themselves professional musicians. Edited December 16, 2014 by Musky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Most people would be doing several different things, including teaching, writing, journalism, producing etc. Steve Lawson is most definitely professional, but has a huge amount of income making sources in his portfolio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I've always assumed 'pro' to mean that someone was competent enough at what they did to get paid for it (even if only now & then) - I've known a few pros in my time, and most of them were quite nice girls.......... (puts on tin hat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 OK, to clarify here, I was mainly responding to Discreet's post "Making a living from teaching and/or gigging and/or recording the bass," If the person is earning exclusively from teaching then to my mind they will not be a pro player. If they mainly earn from teaching with the odd gig, then still probably not a pro player. Surely a pro player apart from anything else needs to be able to commit to recording sessions, gigs, shows, tours and therefore not be available for regular teaching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 A musician who makes all their money from composition and none from playing fails the most obvious test for 'pro player' but, it seems to me, easily passes a test for 'pro musician'. The so-called 'pro player' also passes the 'pro musician' test but may fail the 'pro composer' test. So, being a 'professional musician' is not restricted to 'players', nor restricted to 'composers' Or is the OP only asking about 'pro players'? The thread is entitled simply BTW .. What is a Pro..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 We get a lot of 'pro' players in the shop. Their general definition of themselves is that they make the bulk of their income from playing (or composing) music. Quite a few teach (in fact our highest profile regular customer teaches but at a very high price and very infrequently). We do have a lot of teachers and, to the best of my recollection, they all gig and/or record as well. I'd say that anyone who makes their core income from playing in some form or another is a pro regardless of whether it's huge income or just 'getting by'. We also know some people who can earn serious money from gigging and are fabulous musicians but have a day job that pays more in total. I don't think any of them regard themselves as 'pro' players. To a professional standard yes but not a pure pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 I posted as a lot of people often say in a post they aren't a pro player as though it implies a certain standard. I certainly know quite a few people who earn their living from playing music but I also would not say they are of a certain standard or would use the term 'pro' in regards to them. They just are in the situation. By the same token I know a fair few 'semi pros who are easily of a very good standard. This thread seems to suggest that the term pro relates to earning, but that isn't the way many people here who use the term pro as in not being one, actually mean it, IMO. They seem to mean it implies a certain standard. I found myself asking ..too many times... what do THEY mean..? I think it really should be both...full time player earning their living and certain standard but it so obviously doesn't.. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418758569' post='2633060'] Hear the line, 'pro player' used here by many and I wonder what most people think it means..? [/quote] If I use the term 'pro' on this forum, I use it to differentiate that this individual earns their living though playing bass. If you have to do other things to supplement this income to make a living, then I don't mean you, to me this is 'semi pro'. Others may have different views, the above is mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What is this imaginary but certain standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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