JTUK Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1418768035' post='2633243'] What is this imaginary but certain standard? [/quote] Indeed..what is it...? probably a lot of answers to that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I`ve been called a semi many times. I assumed they meant semi pro but when I think about it.... [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynottfan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Some one who plays music professionally, simple as, nothing to do with skill level. We all have seen the good and the bad and the "pro's" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1418768035' post='2633243'] What is this imaginary but certain standard? [/quote] Able to play 'Rhythm Stick' without farting or sweating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) I would go for attitude. Behaving in a professional manner. You might not be able to play blistering runs, but how often do you need to? A long as you know when and when not to use a stand. And how to put the thing up without taking the singer's eye out. . Edited December 16, 2014 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1418770385' post='2633293'] Able to play 'Rhythm Stick' without farting or sweating. [/quote] That's Norman Watt-Roy excluded then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebass84 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I would say someone who makes a living playing bass (either in the studio, as a live deposit, teaching etc). Sadly I don't think skill level matters. Right place right time/ knowing the right people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Yep, for me it's anyone who earns all their income from playing an instrument and/or writing music (difficult to write without playing anyway!). Teaching would be included in this. Any additional significant income from a completely non-musical related job would bump them down to semi-pro and anyone who earns the vast majority of their income from a non music related job is a hobbyist. Edited December 17, 2014 by KevB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1418826306' post='2633731'] ...anyone who earns the vast majority of their income from a non music related job is a hobbyist. [/quote] I'll tell the current mrs discreet she's merely a hobbyist when she gets home from work this evening. Should go down pretty well! Edited December 17, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) You'll notice at no point did I use an adjective such as 'just' or 'merely' and it was quite deliberate. The term is frequently seen as being derogatory but this is not intentional at all. People spend hours and hours on their hobbies whether they are music related or not because they enjoy doing it. There's nothing derogatory about it. Edited December 17, 2014 by KevB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I am definitely in the hobbyist catagory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Me too, as I suspect are the majority on here. I don't shy away from it and take no offence if people use the term for me. I recently took a 20% pay cut (I won't go into the details) but what I earn from my day job still eclipses what I'll get from the band even in a busy year. I realised a long time ago if i were to do music full time (assuming I attained a high enough standard which is very debatable) I'd be so jaded and bored after a few years I'd probably pack it in completely. Doing it as a hobby has given me more freedom to move between projects and be selective to some degree thus has maintained my interest and enthusiasm over a longer period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 One of my band mates summed up our combo as a 'serious hobby' which suits it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm a weekend warrior! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I agree with the money argument. If you live off your playing, you are a professional. Although it should also be noted that you can be a professional composer, arranger, writer, teacher, producer, engineer etc etc. I think the broadest term would be professional musician which implies many but not all of the above. A physics teacher would not necessarily call themselves a Physicist. Or would they? The simple fact is that it actuall doesn't matter. You can have a pro attitude and not earn monty and have an amateurish attitude and earn shedloads. Definitions of this kind are generalisms and rarely bear close examination. I am not a pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Quite agree. I've always tried to maintain a professional [i]attitude [/i]without ever being a professional musician. I actually don't refer to myself as a [i]musician[/i] unless it's in the company of people who really know naff all about music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 "pro" is an almost entirely meaningless phrase/word. The only definition that really makes sense is "someone who gets paid" although "Having a professional attitude" often seems to get shortened to "pro". I think lots of musicians are under the impression that there's some kind of mythical set of rules or skills that separate the "pro" from everyone else, but reality doesn't really work like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1418830697' post='2633809'] "pro" is an almost entirely meaningless phrase/word. The only definition that really makes sense is "someone who gets paid" although "Having a professional attitude" often seems to get shortened to "pro". I think lots of musicians are under the impression that there's some kind of mythical set of rules or skills that separate the "pro" from everyone else, but reality doesn't really work like that. [/quote] Indeed. We're all just making it up as we go along. Some just look like they know what they're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1418831938' post='2633832'] Indeed. We're all just making it up as we go along. Some just look like they know what they're doing. [/quote] I think a 'pro' is a player who would [i]never [/i]visit a forum that is specifically aimed at them. For example, most 'pro' bass players wouldn't touch BassChat with a ten-foot long bass-playing pole, would they? And the few that have got chased away by a baying mob of village idiots bearing torches and pitchforks... Is anyone here a member of a forum specifically related to their profession? Would you be bothered visiting it after a hard day of doing whatever it is that you do? Or would you rather slump in front of the TV, go to the pub or do [i]anything [/i]as long as it's unrelated to your job? Edited December 17, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Most players I know don't even know what this place is. Mostly they'd check in to see if it was a reasonable place to network or some-such... get involved with the idiots, decide that they had very little in common with them and that there were too many numpties about and drift away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418844648' post='2634056'] Most players I know don't even know what this place is. Mostly they'd check in to see if it was a reasonable place to network or some-such... get involved with the idiots, decide that they had very little in common with them and that there were too many numpties about and drift away... [/quote] A whole new topic of discussion here.... BTW what is an Idiot / Numpty? 😂 Okay i'll sling me hook now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's a fairly good place for some knowledgable answers to some obscure questions. There are pro players here who probably don't identify themselves as such. Mostly non-famous ones. There are electrical engineers on the IET forum who discuss complicated electrical problems they have. Not all professional bass players are obsessed with gear. I've met a few that have no interest in their amplification other than it is loud enough for them to hear themselves clearly. So it's a goo place to come and ask is X worth the money etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Admiral Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) I've found this an interesting thread, not least because I put up a post a while ago about a band playing a charity gig, and after the first 45 minute set, leaving over an hour before they started again, which I thought 'unprofessional'. The hour was spent at the bar, with background music playing through their PA, and my use of the P word was in the context of how they conducted themselves. In my view you can be a a non professional musician, but have a professional attitude, and arguably anyone who plays with others should demonstrate that. I got a fair bit of grief about that post, based in a lot of cases on the 'they weren't being paid, they can do what they like' thought process. To return to the 'pro' question, I'd go with the examples given above : if you earn a living exclusively from a music related performance activity, that to me is a pro. Those who earn good money, but not the majority of their income, semi pro, and those who earn some money, but it's a minority of their income, hobbyist. Ability/skill set are not factors : you can be a professional punk musician and only know a few chords, but your band may be great. I'd also say that being a pro musician doesn't mean you have a professional attitude. I've dealt with some pro musicians, as a promoter, who were laughably inept in this regard : sketchy/unreliable communication pre gig, turning up late, getting lost, needing batteries, leads etc. and not wanting to engage with paying punters post gig, and only grudgingly spending time selling their own merch. Perhaps more understandablea at a theatre/arena gig, but not in a club IMHO. Edited December 18, 2014 by The Admiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 ^ and this is why I won't play charity gigs anymore, turn early and set up all your own kit, play a short set to get warmed up, decide to have a break and probably something to eat as you haven't stopped all day, the person that said they wanted to do a half hour set doesn't turn up or you just really need a rest and possibly there are a lot of people not there yet so you leave it a bit longer whilst playing some music instead, all for nothing but a pat on the back and your a bunch of unprofessional w***ers. I know I'm pulling apart a situation you were at and I wasn't but I've heard so many similar stories now that I just wont do them anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 So after much discussion and opinion, it's still the dictionary definitions of what makes up 'being (a) professional'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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