Guitar dep and dep economics

[mingsta]

I'm in a four piece band and we only gig on a semi regular basis, probably once a month next year as we can expect at least 2-3 semi re-occurring gigs with local pub, function things etc. Our guitarist is quite busy with other projects, but knows the material well and is generally reliable though not always available at the drop of a hat.

He was ill today which has led to us cancelling tonights gig. The singer/band leader sent me a text saying that we need to line up one or possible two guitar deps for next year. Personally I think this a bonkers idea as who in their right mind would learn a setlist of 30 songs for the prospect of playing one or two gigs in 2015 for the princely sum of £50-80 a gig. Plus the work to get them up to speed and the effect of marginalising our current guitarist, who's a good egg other than being quite busy.

Anyway, I think I'm pretty clear in my own min on where I stand with this, but from your experience are there people out who would take a gig like this? What planet do they come from and do they also come with a tourbus and roadies?

[Lozz196]

I`m on a list of depping players for a band who gig loads. I`ve done 3 gigs with them, and had to learn some 30 to 40 songs - some of which I`ve only actually played with the band at the gigs, not rehearsed. This is on bass I might add, but there must be guitarists out there that are happy/able to do this.

[icastle]

If I have the option of either sitting at home or earning £50+ playing, then I put my shoes on.

It may seem like a lot of work, and to begin with it is, but once you get into the swing of it it's not as onerous a task as it first appears.

[EBS_freak]

Somebody that doesn't want the commitment of a regular gig and wants a bit of fun to keep their hand in.

Depends how off the wall your set is I guess. If it's standards, you'll be able to find players I would have thought. It's all about networking, networking, networking!

[ezbass]

I've done both bass and guitar deps that have required me to learn 2 sets worth of songs. The learning process, if not always fun if the songs are a bit meh, is a great way to keep your chops up. Also, a gig's a gig - X Factor (or whatever other dross is on on a Friday or Saturday night) versus getting paid for doing what I enjoy doing, no contest.

[JapanAxe]

I am happy to be in the position of the OP's putative deps, as I consider time spent learning material is never wasted; however I understand not everyone is going to share that view, or have the time to spend working on songs.

[Truckstop]

I have a couple of bands that I dep for once or twice a year. Obviously not much work, but I have another two bands that I dep for 2 or 3 times a month! For some people (like me), depping is 90% of the workload.

The bands I work for tend to have a revolving door of members so the songs are standards. I'd say that the four bands I play with the most share 50% of the material!

Truckstop

[lojo]

You can't worry about marginalizing the current guitarist as he is to busy to keep up, but you must be honest with all involved.

Best get on it now if you want to find a dep

[police squad]

yep its great fun learning loads of stuff at short notice. I learned 30 odd Jam songs in just over 2 weeks. Did 5 or 6 gigs

[JTUK]

Depends what else you can offer... or you'll get what you get.
No one will want to do too much work for the prospect of £50-80
and unless the gig is regular, the 1st gig will be acceptable and they wont
re-learn for the second gig 2 months later..and who can blame them, tbh.
If you do a set full of standards then you have more chance, admittedly
as what you are paying for should be the gig and the preparation work.
It is unreasonable to ask someone to learn 90 mins of material for that money
so you should supply deps with a Pad.

We had a situation where a gtr was taking bookings and putting ours in jeopardy
so we offered the dep gtr number 1 slot, which he took and our former number 1
became the dep.
This is the problem you get when bands operate at two differents speeds.

Edited December 17, 2014 by JTUK

[Norris]

We had to use a dep drummer last week (admittedly a bit easier than a dep guitarist). It meant ditching the unusual stuff and coming up with a mutual list of songs that we all knew i.e. standards, that would fit the occasion.

It might be a bit much to expect a deputy to learn your entire set list for the sake of two or three gigs a year. Depends on who you find and if they are keen/have the time/have the ability to learn songs quickly.

[TimR]

You would be surprised how quick it is to learn 30-40 songs when you know that the rest of the band already have them off pat.

When I auditioned or my current band they sent me a setlist on the Sunday and said we should meet in two weeks after I had learned 3 or 4 of them. I told them I was free on the Thursday and learned 3/4 of the setlist in 4 days. They were standards and I thought numbers I should have really known anyway.

I didn't even know if I would get the position!

It depends on who leads the band musically when you play. If the current guitarist is leading the band and the vocalist is taking ques from him it could be hard work.

Edited December 17, 2014 by TimR

[chris_b]

This is where music stands come into their own.

[AndyTravis]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1418860202' post='2634305']
This is where music stands come into their own.
[/quote]

I'm leaving.

[lowdown]

If you have depped regularly over the years, it ain't a problem.
(That goes for Guitar, Keys and Bass).
You kinda build up a huge repertoire, quite often knowing as many or more
tunes than the band you are depping in (that includes the real (Jazz/show tune) standards
that can sometimes pop up at weddings or functions).

The only issues you might have, might be at endings or linked segues.
But your ears usually get you through that.
If a set list is sent to you, maybe only a couple of tunes are needed to be learned.
Original bands are different matter of course.

There will be times when charts are handed to you.
This is where a Music Stand really takes centre stage - I have a big chunky
'Pro' Black one. I usually get paid more and rebooked if I whip that out.

Edited December 18, 2014 by lowdown

[Phil Starr]

I recently joined a new band, 30 new songs in a couple of months in my case. I was talking to our guitarist about how he coped and he pointed out that so long as the bass, drums and rhythm section keep going he can drop out or just chord out sections where he is unsure, solo's generally come over a simple chord sequence or even stay on one chord.

Normally I find the basics of a song take half the time to learn, the last 5% takes almost as long as the rest of the song. As a bassist you pretty much have to know the whole song so the demands are slightly different.

[shizznit]

Guitarists grow on trees and I don't think you will have much trouble finding a dep for those gigs. When your a dep, learning a huge list of songs in a short space of time just for what could be a couple of gigs. It's the nature of the beast.

I am depping for a band at the moment and and I have had to learn a list of songs for tomorrow night that will make up 3x 45mins sets...I have had just over a week to learn them with only one rehearsal which will be later tonight. I know how to play a few of the songs already, which helps, but trying to remember how this band add their little nuances is the tough part and they do chop up a few things to make the songs their own.

If you play the songs as per the artist then a deps work is faulty easy as they can learn the songs at home to an accurate level, but if are planning to use deps you have to try to make their lives as easy as possible because learning all those songs is a challenge.

[JTUK]

Classic thing...band wants a dep and wants a rehearsal thrown in.
That could add up to petrol for the reheasal time, no contribution to the costs of the
studio and the gig is in a pub..??
That is why I say you'll get what you will get and no one doing it for money
is going to be keen to rehearse it as that amounts to doing them a favour
whiich is now costing YOU money.
Time to get the music stand out or busk it...or get paid good money, travel and exes
and most guys will do that for £150 but you still have to research what you are actually going to get,
player-wise.
We only do it on recommendation...by someone we know well

[chris_b]

..... and a rehearsal!!!

I'd want double the money for doing the gig twice.

I was asked to dep in a blues band in the Summer at a festival. I've known the singer for 20 years.

They sent me a CD, all very simple 12 bars, then they came back with, "You've got to rehearse".

What? For a bunch of 12 bars? I declined their offer and they got someone else. Their loss.

Apparently the rhythm section didn't gel, even after a rehearsal, and the gig didn't go well. Oh dear!

[JTUK]

I can see that the gig may have been important enough to justify a rehearsal...but then also agree they
should have factored that into the fee....
The thing also with dep gigs is that you need to know what you are letting yourself in for...musically..
My thing is that drummers can be difficult to play with ( and I feel that is what I do..make sense of the drums, imho )
and there are some you probably really don't want to touch....tbh. but again, it depends on
whether you are or can afford to be picky.
If they wanted a rehearsal then I'd expect to be on more than the band fee for the gig as that is indeed twice the work..

And....tbh..most bands would/should know and agree to this.

[TimR]

To rehearse or not is an individual thing.

It's not always an option. I was called once on a Thursday to do a gig on a Saturday.

When I asked for a setlist and whether they want to meet before the guy told me I'd be OK. I was recommended and they were all standards.

Que the most terrifying three hour gig of my life. Standards? My a***!

[chris_b]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1418899134' post='2634545']
....I would absolutely want to rehearse, but then again, I enjoy playing....
[/quote]

So do I, but rehearsing a night of 12 bars isn't playing.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1418901621' post='2634595']
So do I, but rehearsing a night of 12 bars isn't playing.
[/quote]

This is my beef with jam nights.... all fun for the gtr and 12 bars.