People selling stuff they don't own

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1419026034' post='2635925']

That's Merello's. But before that (Crazy)Kiwi used to use it. Now that used to confuse the hell out of me!

I'd always assumed it was something off B3ta.
[/quote]

I told you I was crap with names, I was close though, lol

[gary mac]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1419022893' post='2635874']
Yep, skeptical posts from honest members who smelled a rat were removed, whilst the interests of the dishonest member were apparently protected....
[/quote]

It has to be put in to context though Chris.

Until someone is proven to be dishonest we have to show the same courtesy as we do with any other sale thread. If posts are made that may affect the sale for the forum member we will delete them.

Fear not, the mod team will be discussing this further.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1419026346' post='2635930']
The final post on that Wal FS thread said

Posted 01 December 2014 - 08:56

.,,sorry but this guy needs to give a better explanation of his actions or be chucked out of BassChat in my view
[/quote]
As do the mods who kept deleting the posts clearly stating the above at the time Clarky. Someone could have been badly ripped off as the 'seller' maintained he owned the bass way after was obvious to anyone with any sense that he didn't

[Beedster]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1419026917' post='2635940']


It has to be put in to context though Chris.

Until someone is proven to be dishonest we have to show the same courtesy as we do with any other sale thread. If posts are made that may affect the sale for the forum member we will delete them.

Fear not, the mod team will be discussing this further.
[/quote].

No Gary, it was very very poor judgement given the hard evidence presented by several members at the time, evidence that was deleted by mods leaving the impression that the seller was straight up

[Guest McBass]

[quote name='kulit17' timestamp='1419022561' post='2635870']
wow that's terrible!! first the guy shoots for the moon selling a bass and the guy never had possession of it!! that's definitely shows poor character right there. i'd be surprised and hope that everyone would be wary if he ever thinks of selling anything on BC again.

@McBass got any new pics of the bass? only pics i saw of it is the ones on the old Wal registry and glimpses of the auction site.



Bass seems to be elusive as Moby.
[/quote]
For sure. i'll hopefully get it on Tuesday, depending on the courier...i'll post it a pic of it along side the MK II V i got off Happy Jack earlier this year.

[stingrayPete1977]

Not if someone else buys it off me, I've listed for £2900 in the for sale section with some gaffer tape over the serial number, I'm practically giving it away as it was last advertised for £3500 on here! Lol

[yorks5stringer]

Slightly OT I know but "People selling stuff that they do not own"...isn't that how the Bankers and Financial Sector operate worldwide?

[Guest McBass]

The proceeds of the sale go to a Disabled Children's Charity according to the sale room.

Edited December 19, 2014 by McBass

[paul_5]

I thought this was going to be thread about the NHS...

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1419030181' post='2635990']
I thought this was going to be thread about the NHS...
[/quote]
You have it all wrong, they are not selling it, just that it will belong to other people after the transactions and the torys keep the proceeds. Nothing like a sale see

[The Admiral]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1419029827' post='2635985']
Slightly OT I know but "People selling stuff that they do not own"...isn't that how the Bankers and Financial Sector operate worldwide?
[/quote]

If you have seen Trading Places, that's the whole principle of the OJ thing at the end, where they make a killing. It's all explained here :

http://www.dangerouslogic.com/trading_places.html

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1419027249' post='2635947']
.No Gary, it was very very poor judgement given the hard evidence presented by several members at the time, evidence that was deleted by mods leaving the impression that the seller was straight up
[/quote]

There was no hard evidence, there were links to an auction of the same bass and the thrust of the matter was the fact that it had been bought cheap and was being sold on for a profit. Knocking a sellers price is against the rules same for anyone, as anyone is free to sell an item for whatever price they put on it. The mods personal opinion did not come into the matter, the sale was modded as it would've been for any other.

To accuse us of poor judgement is easy to do in hindsight, so in future I'll ignore snide comments about price that is clearly more to do with sour grapes than the protection of our members and I'll borrow your crystal ball if you don't mind.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Billy Apple

[Bassman Sam]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1419031038' post='2636001'] Knocking a sellers price is against the rules same for anyone, as anyone is free to sell an item for whatever price they put on it. [/quote]

I thought we had to pay a fee.

[size=4] [/size][size=4] [/size][size=4]Sorry. coat got. [/size]

[kulit17]

[quote name='McBass' timestamp='1419029150' post='2635976']

For sure. i'll hopefully get it on Tuesday, depending on the courier...i'll post it a pic of it along side the MK II V i got off Happy Jack earlier this year.
[/quote]

Sweet!!! Just in time for xmas!!

[Beedster]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1419031038' post='2636001']
I'll borrow your crystal ball if you don't mind.
[/quote]

Let me know when you need it, it's pretty reliable

OK, point taken Billy, and apologies to the mods for the above, but I do suspect that the very least that should have been done was perhaps a PM to the members whose posts were deleted saying thanks for your diligence, apologies for the deletes and we're looking into it. I don't think any comment I read suggested sour grapes, or at least I didn't read them that way, just a few folks pointing out that a bass with the same serial number was listed for sale elsewhere, and the O/P editing his posts at a pretty high rate in response.

C

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1419066220' post='2636123']
Let me know when you need it, it's pretty reliable

OK, point taken Billy, and apologies to the mods for the above, but I do suspect that the very least that should have been done was perhaps a PM to the members whose posts were deleted saying thanks for your diligence, apologies for the deletes and we're looking into it. I don't think any comment I read suggested sour grapes, or at least I didn't read them that way, just a few folks pointing out that a bass with the same serial number was listed for sale elsewhere, and the O/P editing his posts at a pretty high rate in response.

C
[/quote]

OK. We are not supposed to discuss moderating matters publicly, but seeing as this is an issue that can affect us all I think for transparencies sake I'm gong to flesh this out.

Firstly the bass had not been advertised for sale elsewhere, it had been pointed out that this bass had just sold at auction and various links to the auction were posted. Members who have posts deleted do get PM's and where there is a large tidy up the thread might just say that. I worked via PM with one member to edit his post so pertinent information was kept in his post (the link to the auction site) but discussion about profit margins were removed. At this point in time there was no inference and accusation that the bass was not in the hands of the seller. At this point we have to take it on trust that the goods exist and the seller is in possesion of them. If not we could not function as a marketplace. This is where areas like feedback come into play and the general network that we have to sniff things out.

Quite simply we do not allow an accusatory tone or mob mentality in any of the sales and we have to act on evidence not opinion. After the thread was tidied up it was up to the seller to post new pics of the bass and guess what, none were forthcoming and the sale was ended by the seller, kind of writing itself. I knew that the current owner of this very lovely Wal would turn up and guess what, he has. Now we have evidence we are able to take appropriate action.

The mods have to do their best in an imperfect world where much of the sales are conducted on trust. We have to frequently deal with smaller sales where members have sent money as a gift through Paypal and goods are not forthcoming. It is true, we do give members benefit of the doubt. Sometimes things are late to be posted for family reasons or whatever. But you can bet your boots that once a member is found to be fraudulent a ban is usually immediate.

Finally I'll says this to you Beed, and this is something that usually would go in a PM, but as we are being open and honest and transparent I'll say it out loud. I think you are bang out of order to accuse the mods of pf protecting a fraudulent sale and by that I mean any fraudulent sale. There is so much more going on under the surface, that if it was to show on sale threads most of them would just be chaos. Sometimes life is about the journey and sometimes it's about the destination. The journey in this instance may have been rocky but the destination is that all's well that ends well and in that respect the forum has worked.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1419070099' post='2636156']
OK. We are not supposed to discuss moderating matters publicly, but seeing as this is an issue that can affect us all I think for transparencies sake I'm gong to flesh this out.

Firstly the bass had not been advertised for sale elsewhere, it had been pointed out that this bass had just sold at auction and various links to the auction were posted. Members who have posts deleted do get PM's and where there is a large tidy up the thread might just say that. I worked via PM with one member to edit his post so pertinent information was kept in his post (the link to the auction site) but discussion about profit margins were removed. At this point in time there was no inference and accusation that the bass was not in the hands of the seller. At this point we have to take it on trust that the goods exist and the seller is in possesion of them. If not we could not function as a marketplace. This is where areas like feedback come into play and the general network that we have to sniff things out.

Quite simply we do not allow an accusatory tone or mob mentality in any of the sales and we have to act on evidence not opinion. After the thread was tidied up it was up to the seller to post new pics of the bass and guess what, none were forthcoming and the sale was ended by the seller, kind of writing itself. I knew that the current owner of this very lovely Wal would turn up and guess what, he has. Now we have evidence we are able to take appropriate action.

The mods have to do their best in an imperfect world where much of the sales are conducted on trust. We have to frequently deal with smaller sales where members have sent money as a gift through Paypal and goods are not forthcoming. It is true, we do give members benefit of the doubt. Sometimes things are late to be posted for family reasons or whatever. But you can bet your boots that once a member is found to be fraudulent a ban is usually immediate.

Finally I'll says this to you Beed, and this is something that usually would go in a PM, but as we are being open and honest and transparent I'll say it out loud. I think you are bang out of order to accuse the mods of pf protecting a fraudulent sale and by that I mean any fraudulent sale. There is so much more going on under the surface, that if it was to show on sale threads most of them would just be chaos. Sometimes life is about the journey and sometimes it's about the destination. The journey in this instance may have been rocky but the destination is that all's well that ends well and in that respect the forum has worked.
[/quote]

Fair enough Billy, no big issue. Points taken

Chris

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1419078154' post='2636273']
Fair enough Billy, no big issue. Points taken

Chris
[/quote]

Cheers,

Sean

[kulit17]

[quote name='McBass' timestamp='1419029150' post='2635976']
For sure. i'll hopefully get it on Tuesday, depending on the courier...i'll post it a pic of it along side the MK II V i got off Happy Jack earlier this year.
[/quote]

did you get it yet??

[No lust in Jazz]

I had a similar experience of this in my pre-basschat days, I was selling some stuff on ebay and I was sent an ebay email from someone making an effort to, "come across as a youngster who really needed the item that I had" and then 'was struggling to get the funds, could I do a deal on the price?" - We came to an arrangement and he paid, I later found out, before I'd actually sold it to him; he had listed it on here, yes for more than I sold it to him.

He list stuff fairly often - I often wonder if there's a similar back story

[icastle]

[quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1419877719' post='2643516']
I had a similar experience of this in my pre-basschat days, I was selling some stuff on ebay and I was sent an ebay email from someone making an effort to, "come across as a youngster who really needed the item that I had" and then 'was struggling to get the funds, could I do a deal on the price?" - We came to an arrangement and he paid, I later found out, before I'd actually sold it to him; he had listed it on here, yes for more than I sold it to him.

He list stuff fairly often - I often wonder if there's a similar back story
[/quote]

This is an easy one with absolutely no 'grey area' or compromise.

[b]Only items that are owned by and in the possession of the member can be advertised for sale or trade.[/b]

If anyone thinks that rules being broken then hit the 'Report' button or send a PM to any Mod.
We take an extremely dim view of people trying to con our members and [b]never[/b] reveal our sources.

[jazzyvee]

On a slightly different note, about 12 yrs ago I bought a high end electric guitar from cash converters. It was in immaculate as new condition including a deluxe case. I paid good money for it but about 1/3rd of the retail price ,(£1300),at the time. Anyway I contacted the manufacturer via email sending the serial number and asked for some details about the guitar. By return of email I got the reply that the guitar belongs to them and that it is a pre-release guitar they had loaned to the guitarist of a famous rock band, whom he named but I won't mention, and that I should return the guitar to them.

Concerned that I may have inadvertently bought a stolen instrument, I contacted cash converters who would not release the details of the seller of the guitar and then took legal advice. I was advised that I should contact the police to try to establish if it has been reported stolen. It hadn't. then if it had not been reported stolen then I should contact the manufacturer explaining that I had bought the guitar in good faith from a store and paid a fair price for a used instrument stressing that it has not been reported stolen and if they felt that the guitar was their property them they should contact the police and resolve the matter of owner ship through the courts. The police did advise me not to sell the guitar before I establish if the company is intending to pursue the matter legally. I didn't get an acknowledgement of my email and even contacted them a couple of times in intervening years and got no reply. I still get stuff through on their email list when they have new stuff and their site forum.
I often wonder if they got in touch with the guitarist they loaned it to.
It's a superb guitar though.

Edited December 29, 2014 by jazzyvee

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1419889807' post='2643739']
On a slightly different note, about 12 yrs ago I bought a high end electric guitar from cash converters. It was in immaculate as new condition including a deluxe case. I paid good money for it but about 1/3rd of the retail price ,(£1300),at the time. Anyway I contacted the manufacturer via email sending the serial number and asked for some details about the guitar. By return of email I got the reply that the guitar belongs to them and that it is a pre-release guitar they had loaned to the guitarist of a famous rock band, whom he named but I won't mention, and that I should return the guitar to them.

Concerned that I may have inadvertently bought a stolen instrument, I contacted cash converters who would not release the details of the seller of the guitar and then took legal advice. I was advised that I should contact the police to try to establish if it has been reported stolen. It hadn't. then if it had not been reported stolen then I should contact the manufacturer explaining that I had bought the guitar in good faith from a store and paid a fair price for a used instrument stressing that it has not been reported stolen and if they felt that the guitar was their property them they should contact the police and resolve the matter of owner ship through the courts. The police did advise me not to sell the guitar before I establish if the company is intending to pursue the matter legally. I didn't get an acknowledgement of my email and even contacted them a couple of times in intervening years and got no reply. I still get stuff through on their email list when they have new stuff and their site forum.
I often wonder if they got in touch with the guitarist they loaned it to.
It's a superb guitar though.
[/quote]

So the cheeky rock-star sold on the freebie and trousered the cash?

[Guest McBass]

[url="https://www.facebook.com/groups/2413094311/10153190666084312/?comment_id=10153193130539312&notif_t=like"]https://www.facebook.com/groups/2413094311/10153190666084312/?comment_id=10153193130539312&notif_t=like[/url]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='McBass' timestamp='1425491435' post='2707893']
[url="https://www.facebook.com/groups/2413094311/10153190666084312/?comment_id=10153193130539312&notif_t=like"]https://www.facebook...12&notif_t=like[/url]
[/quote]

Might well be of interest, but only visible for those with a Facebook ID. No chance of a [i]résumé[/i], I suppose..?