chriswareham Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I've played in punk, gothic, industrial and metal bands for over twenty years and something I've noticed is that pretty much everyone I've ever been in band with absolutely loves Ska and Reggae - in particular the Ska revival stuff of the very late 1970's and early 1980's. Whenever we've talked about it further, my bandmates have agreed that the bass playing in those styles of music has a feel we've found it impossible to replicate. It's almost as though our primary genres demand a mechanical and precise feel that is the complete opposite of Ska and Reggae. I've been intrigued by this for years, so I've spent this afternoon trying to analyse what makes a typical Ska bass and drum backing. My conclusion is that the the drums are typically quite "shuffling" (not sure if that's the correct term), but ultimately play a repetitve pattern thoughout most songs. The bass guitar though is completely unfathomable to me, playing against the rhythm and often changing so much that it almost sounds like it was improvised. I know that people like Horace Panter had been playing for many years before they acheived a high profile, but how on earth do you start to learn this style of playing? I've tried many times to play along with the recordings, but I always sound stilted in comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Someone once told me that reggae bass is played on the 'off' beat, not the 'on' - is that any help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) There's lots of different Jamaican musical forms, they aren't all ska or reggae (which are different) and they aren't all 'one drop'; for example, walking lines are not uncommon. Try the Ed Friedland book which ought to be called Jamaican bass: Edited December 19, 2014 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswareham Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1419020457' post='2635851'] Someone once told me that reggae bass is played on the 'off' beat, not the 'on' - is that any help? [/quote] Could be. I tend to think of the emphasis as being on the quarter notes, first note of four triplets or two dotted and one undotted quarter notes in a single bar if that makes sense. Perhaps I need to change my sub-conscious "count" to use alternate eight notes and what would be sixteenth "passing" notes in the genres I normally play. It's either that or start smoking draw, which is what was recommended by the Rastafari guy who ran the rehearsal place I used as a student! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Lots of triplet stuff where you just play the two and three of the triplet. Unfortunately to be any good at any style you just have to immerse yourself in it for weeks. Just listen constantly on your iPod to as much as you can get hold of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswareham Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1419022063' post='2635862'] Lots of triplet stuff where you just play the two and three of the triplet. Unfortunately to be any good at any style you just have to immerse yourself in it for weeks. Just listen constantly on your iPod to as much as you can get hold of. [/quote] Any recommendations gratefully appreciated. Stuff I'm familiar with and love includes Specials, Selector, Prince Buster, King Tubby and various stuff that Sly and Robbie have played on. For whatever reason, stuff that leaves me cold is Madness (apart from Night Boat To Cairo) and Bob Marley. I think I must be in good company when it comes to sharing this love of ska / reggae / dub stuff as it's also a big influence on people I admire like Killing Joke and Godflesh. Edited December 19, 2014 by chriswareham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswareham Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1419020987' post='2635856'] Try the Ed Friedland book which ought to be called Jamaican bass: [/quote] Cool! Just snagged a copy on Amazon for less than a fiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I'd immerse in dub & version - Tubby, Lee Perry, U Roy, I Roy, Freddie McGregor ( Minstrel & Queen/Wine of violence...) you need to feel the riddim if you are going to be at one with the music - British ska like Madness was a thieve by Jerry Dammers from his dads (?) record collection - Marley was reinvented by Island as a form of Black music to appeal to a white audience - listen to Bangarang, Pheonix City, Pretty Cottage & More Scorcia for starters, all different and all valid........Barbara Lyn Letter to Mommy & Daddy was one single that kicked it off over here - I've played this stuff for forty years, and I still have a 2k system for home (!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFry Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Accent the third beat of every other bar i.e. bar 2 , bar 4 , etc Feel it in half time , so the third beats feel like a 2 and the third beat of the second bar feels like the 4, but accent that new 4 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I started a similar thread a while ago, I'm still miles off but the "less is more" approach is the bit of advice gained that I've really clung too, if you get the feel right the size of the gaps you can leave is amazing, it's as if the listeners brains fill in the gaps somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notable9 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Ha this forum is the biz.. I've just started playing along to The Selector on the ipod. Never played that type of stuff before. Seems to me at the very least it's fingers not pick and its kinda jerky but precise almost staccato if that makes any sense. And then you have to pogo too!!...blimey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Muted pick with all the tone rolled off works well, sort of clicky motion with the tip of the pick but I'm not that advanced to pull it off so fingers or even just thumb and fore finger for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I have no empathy with either ( for different reasons ) but suggest it is a style you have to like in order to play it...more so, that other styles, IMO. Reggae isn't easy but ska is just music white guys who can't dance usually CAN dance to Other than that..can't help but say you really have to listen to them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 http://youtu.be/0-dAZrBlGOY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 You have to listen really carefully to the note length and emphasis. Lots of reggae sounds really simple note wise but nailing it is really hard. Listen to as much as you can. My favourite two reggae albums are "Marcus Garvey" by burning spear and "best dressed chicken in town" by Dr alimintado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 For ska I`d listen to The Specials, seeing as Sir Horace Gentleman is an amazing player. Get the feel for how he plays and imo you can pretty much then nail ska bass-lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 You need to "feel" the music. If you've grown up listening to rock and metal, that's what your hard wired to play. You might tackle other material along the way, but rock and 4/4/2 is ingrained in your brain. To play ska and reggae, your gonna have to immerse yourself in the music and get the feel for it before being a convincing player and not just a playing by numbers type musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 First thing you do is listen a lot and learn loads of covers. There's obviously going to be strong opinions as to what is ska and reggae but start off with mainstream two tone (specials) and some Marley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think a lot of bollocks is spoken about how to play ska and reggae, all this stuff about accents and onedrop and all that. There are no 'rules' to make you sound right as such. But you do need to immerse yourself in the music and its history and development. Otherwise you run the risk of sounding like a politician trying to get down with the kidz. You should also see where Caribbean music has developed into and how it has spread its influence. Only when you've become educated about it and have developed a passion for it, will you be able to make musical decisions about what sounds 'acceptable' and what is too far removed from the cultural aspects of this kind of music. You also need to be playing with other musicians of a similar level of understanding so you can create something that sounds 'authentic'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
police squad Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I remember watching the TV show called 'Rockschool' with Deirdry Cartwright, Henry Thomas and Paul Nicholls. They explained reggae style music in a simple form and I found it very informative. As a novice (at the bass, I played violin for 7 years before touching the bass) it was quite a good show. The only reggae/ska stuff I've done in recent years is Stir it up by Bob Marley and Amy Winehouse's version off monkey man. It's great stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1419077059' post='2636258'] ... Otherwise you run the risk of sounding like a politician trying to get down with the kidz. ... [/quote] Excellent analogy. That's what I was searching for in "the best function band I've ever seen" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1419027407' post='2635950'] I have no empathy with either ( for different reasons ) but suggest it is a style you have to like in order to play it...more so, that other styles, IMO. Reggae isn't easy but [size=5][b]ska is just music white guys who can't dance usually CAN dance to [/b][/size] Other than that..can't help but say you really have to listen to them.. [/quote] ha! loved that! Years ago, a lovely drummer (RIP, Shamey ) called me up as he just joined a ska band and they were having issues with their bass player so he asked me if I'd like to join them. I had barely listened to any ska, and little reggae, and never really paid attention to the basslines, but I thought "how hard can it be?". I felt sooo out of place! It's like I could play the notes but it felt contrived and mechanical... The leader (vocals, and guitar, and main writer) gave me tons of ska music to listen to and get the feel. And it was that: hours and hours... over weeks... over months, of listening to as much as I could, until it becomes ingrained in you. Unfortunately the band had to break due to an ugly incident, and by the time they were ready to continue I was already busy with my current band they found another bass player who "got" ska. It was very very interesting, and I have been able to use some of what I learnt in my new band. There is a lot of walking basslines, played fast, that may sound like improvised, hard to figure out... but if you think about the chords underlining the melody, then the basslines become kind of obvious. However, nothing works better than simply listening to it, a lot, and it becomes familiar. Of course, if you don't like the music, it's a huge chore Reggae can be hugely interesting in the basslines, and I still struggle. I can play other people's songs and (I think) I can get the feel right, playing a bit behind the beat often helps, and the gaps are as important as the actual notes, if not more, but I find it very hard to come up with decent original basslines. Everything I play still sounds predictable and almost cliche... and the temptation is to compensate by overplaying, which is the surest way to kill a reggae bassline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Don't think - FEEL ;-) http://youtu.be/cm0uSVvjsOA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Some of my favourite "sources" of basslines are bands like: Danakil [url="http://youtu.be/4G2Y_rkOleg"]http://youtu.be/4G2Y_rkOleg[/url] and [url="http://youtu.be/9mk4QujUk4I"]http://youtu.be/9mk4QujUk4I[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 also things like Dubblestandart, which may crossover a bit towards dub and which I *love* to play along to. Simple basslines but so much fun! [url="http://youtu.be/EYaOl1OKSio"]http://youtu.be/EYaOl1OKSio[/url] and [url="http://youtu.be/X9LJvHVmzeU"]http://youtu.be/X9LJvHVmzeU[/url] or busier lines like: [url="http://youtu.be/qJfh5O1kTWA"]http://youtu.be/qJfh5O1kTWA[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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