Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

String guages?


Dan Dare
 Share

Recommended Posts

Anyone else get fed up with unbalanced/poorly matched strings? The tension varies enormously across what a manufacturer sells us as a "set". Bought Thomastik Flat wounds for the Jazz. The A, at.70, was so slack as to be impossible to get the intonation correct at the bridge - the saddle fell off the adjuster screw before it was right. Had to replace with a D'Addario in a heavier gauge. Looking at the tension figures on the D'Addario site, they vary across a set by 25-30% in some cases. Appalling. Is it just me who's unhappy with this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never really had this problem, or thought about it too much....
I recently bought a bass which already had Ernie Ball "Hybrids" on
Never having played these before, and initially finding them a bit on the light side...
.... I find I quite like playing them now

Mind you, maybe I am too easily pleased as well? lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a thread here somewhere where a TI string dealer says that Thomastik often get their gauges mixed up in a set and they have to check before sending out to customers. Don't understand why, since they don't make many sets. Any way you can check the gauge is actually what it is supposed to be? Sorry can't find thread - try a search (on way to office party :) )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1419335071' post='2638813']
.....Any way you can check the gauge is actually what it is supposed to be? Sorry can't find thread - try a search (on way to office party :) )
[/quote]

Ah, I'd just enjoy your office party if I were you ;)
Or maybe, play your bass after the office party, and you won't notice any string problems lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1419335071' post='2638813']
There is a thread here somewhere where a TI string dealer says that Thomastik often get their gauges mixed up in a set and they have to check before sending out to customers. Don't understand why, since they don't make many sets. Any way you can check the gauge is actually what it is supposed to be? Sorry can't find thread - try a search (on way to office party :) )
[/quote]

This. Have had this happen twice to me - both times it was TI Jazz rounds, and both times the pack contained a 'D' in place of the 'A'. Sorted by retailer (Strings Direct) but worth checking that the 'A' in your set really is an 'A'...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another possible clue to a mis-matched set is the saddles, after intonating, are zig-zagged rather than neatly staggered. Happened to me once with a heavier G from an odd set.
Digital calipers are quite cheap these days, start from a tenner, measure to 0.01mm or 0.001 inch. Useful if you do a lot mucking about with strings (I always do after a GAS attack).
(ps party not so good, tough beef, shortage of turkey, left after half a pint to arrange wife's new(ish) car to collect on Christmas Eve. Nightmare - last time I change cars late December)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1419267741' post='2638175']
Anyone else get fed up with unbalanced/poorly matched strings? The tension varies enormously across what a manufacturer sells us as a "set". Bought Thomastik Flat wounds for the Jazz. The A, at.70, was so slack as to be impossible to get the intonation correct at the bridge - the saddle fell off the adjuster screw before it was right. Had to replace with a D'Addario in a heavier gauge. Looking at the tension figures on the D'Addario site, they vary across a set by 25-30% in some cases. Appalling. Is it just me who's unhappy with this?
[/quote]
It's not just you. Thirty years ago. When GHS Progressives were a new string, I custom-ordered 45-60-80-105 for my basses decades before a "balanced" set became "vogue." I had played 45-65-85-105 Boomers, and the D and A strings always felt stiff to me. Good news: more manufacturers now offer "balanced" sets: La Bella, D'Addario, Kalium (formerly CircleK) and maybe a few others. D'Addario makes at least three specifically "balanced" nickel plated roundwound sets in 40, 45 and 50, and Kalium's entire marketing campaign is equal tension throughout every set at every gauge from skinny singles for piccolo bass to sub-bass tunings with strings that get to 6 to 7 mm string diameter.

I tried a friend's bass with the T-I's a couple of years ago. Hated them for all the same reasons; plus, they turned my fingers black.

Most recently, I've had good luck with the La Bella black nylon tapewounds. They feel balanced and sound balanced. Don't let the strange gauges of the regular set concern you. The thicker gauges are due to the nylon wrap, which does add diameter, but does not add anything to the tension of the string.

Finally: a bit of history: most basses have flat top pickups, and the first basses had 7 to 9 inch crown radius fingerboards. So the D and A strings were made thicker than the numbers might otherwise indicate so they would produce the same signal even though being farther from the pickup. Worse, with original flatwound strings, the G string was very heavy so it wouldn't twang, and the E string was very light so it wouldn't thump - 50 to 100 being typical. With modern basses having a flatter crown radius arc, this is not as important as it used to be. Rickenbacker was an exception to this, from the early '70's on, with their arced polepieces in their high gain pickups. So their stock strings had more even progression in diameters. Feel and consistency of tone are more important now. It has just taken the string manufacturers a few decades to catch up to the rest of bass technology.

Edited by iiipopes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1420738502' post='2652861']Good news: more manufacturers now offer "balanced" sets: La Bella, D'Addario, Kalium (formerly CircleK) and maybe a few others. D'Addario makes at least three specifically "balanced" nickel plated roundwound sets in 40, 45 and 50, and Kalium's entire marketing campaign is equal tension throughout every set at every gauge from skinny singles for piccolo bass to sub-bass tunings with strings that get to 6 to 7 mm string diameter.
[/quote]

But what is a "balanced" tension set?

It's certainly not equal tension for all the strings as a quick look at any of the manufacturer's tables will show you. Besides what most people refer to as "tension" is a combination of the actual tension of a string which is based on it's unit mass, speaking length and the pitch it's tuned to, and compliance which is dependent on lots of other factors such as construction, and what happens to the string beyond the speaking length such as break angle over the saddles and nut and the actual amount of free string between the witness points and where it is ultimately anchored.

All this means that a set of strings that feel balanced on one bass may feel completely wrong on another.

That's why string choice is such as personal matter and there is no right answer, but simply what feels right to you.

Edited by BigRedX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Balanced means exactly that: balanced. Within the practical limits of manufacturing, the actual tension nut to bridge for each string at pitch is as close to the same as can be made. D'Addario and Kalium (fka CircleK) publish these figures.

Now, balance and feel are two completely different concepts. Depending on setup, break angles over bridge an nut, action height, the flexibility of the string, one may feel completely different from the other. This can be demonstrated on a single bass: set up with low action and proper relief, a given string will feel good. Raise the bridge and loosen the truss rod, and even though the same string will have the same tension between the nut and the bridge, the latter will feel much stiffer.

Edited by iiipopes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1423689340' post='2688043']
Balanced means exactly that: balanced. Within the practical limits of manufacturing, the actual tension nut to bridge for each string at pitch is as close to the same as can be made. D'Addario and Kalium (fka CircleK) publish these figures.
[/quote]
So, that's balanced or equalised tension across the four (or more) strings - of course not exactly fully equalised tension but a move towards it, or so it looks from the Kalium or D'Addario figures. I have never thought that my strings were unbalanced, so I still don't really get it.

[quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1423689340' post='2688043']
Now, balance and feel are two completely different concepts. Depending on setup, break angles over bridge an nut, action height, the flexibility of the string, one may feel completely different from the other. This can be demonstrated on a single bass: set up with low action and proper relief, a given string will feel good. Raise the bridge and loosen the truss rod, and even though the same string will have the same tension between the nut and the bridge, the latter will feel much stiffer.
[/quote]
Do you mean 'balance and feel are two completely different concepts' or did you intend 'tension' and 'feel' are different concepts?

I assume that by 'feel' you mean what is usually called 'compliance' or sometimes 'elasticity'? Compliance is the feel of the string under the fingers, the way it moves elastically and it is most definitely different to tension, although there is a general correlation between higher tension and lower compliance and vice versa.

Are so-called balanced tension sets also somehow balanced in compliance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don from D'Addario here - we've been talking about some Balanced Tension bass sets - nothing in stone as of yet. In the meantime, you can use our new String Tension calculator to figure out what might work for you - www.stringtensionpro.com - let me know if you have any feedback. You can reach me at [email protected]

Don Dawson
Product Marketing Specialist
D'Addario

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ddawson2012' timestamp='1423765649' post='2688840']
Don from D'Addario here - we've been talking about some Balanced Tension bass sets - nothing in stone as of yet. In the meantime, you can use our new String Tension calculator to figure out what might work for you - www.stringtensionpro.com - let me know if you have any feedback. You can reach me at [email protected]

Don Dawson
Product Marketing Specialist
D'Addario
[/quote]

D'Addario already makes balanced tension bass sets??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='ddawson2012' timestamp='1423765649' post='2688840']
Don from D'Addario here - we've been talking about some Balanced Tension bass sets - nothing in stone as of yet. In the meantime, you can use our new String Tension calculator to figure out what might work for you - www.stringtensionpro.com - let me know if you have any feedback. You can reach me at [email protected]

Don Dawson
Product Marketing Specialist
D'Addario
[/quote]
They are already on your website:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, I mis-typed. Tension and feel are two completely different concepts.

Compliance, or flexibility is something that probably has to be done on a progressive basis (pun intended). The larger the string, usually the larger diameter of the coil. The larger diameter of the coil, then the less flexible the string is. Some manufacturers try to counter this by different means, two of them being multiple wraps to lessen the coil diameter, and (especially on flatwound strings) narrow the width of the ribbon wrap, especially on the E string, to help it maintain flexibility, which promotes overtones, and therefore approaching a consistent tone string-to-string, as well as tension and compliance, or flexibility.

Edited by iiipopes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...