Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 [quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1422042166' post='2668209']a respectable brand like TC Electronics hadn't taken the time to fit 50p's worth of acoustic damping in the cabinet. [/quote]50p here, 50p there, eventually you get enough for the CEO to take a week in Cannes. Can't blame him, Denmark in January is colder than Scotland. G-K pulled the same stunt a few years back with their Neo cabs, got outed on talkbass, and no less than Bob Gallien had the gall to say that they'd tested their new line with and without damping and bracing and that they sounded better without it. After a few people added damping and bracing, with the same result as yours, he wasn't heard from again. [i]But guess what happened a year or so later when they introduced the next version of those cabs. [/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1422045772' post='2668257'] 50p here, 50p there, eventually you get enough for the CEO to take a week in Cannes. [/quote] It's cheaper to make cabs look the business than sound the business. Which is fine, because most people listen with their eyes anyway. Edited January 23, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman P Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I have a Fender Rumble 15 I use in the practice room. It used to be booming on some note and dead on others. I tried a compressor, with limited success. I was ready to buy something else. Then as a final fix I decided to deaden the cab. I got some 10mm thick carpet underlay and lined the cab with a double layer, sticking it in place with a standard spray adhesive. The difference is amazing. Even tones and a deeper base response. It’s such cheap and simple way to improve sound. I recommend anyone should try it before giving up on the rumble 15. The only minor problem is the cab is sealed, so the work has to be done through the speaker hole in the front baffle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The bass isn't actually deeper, it just seems that way due to the reduction of midbass boom. The mids are smoother as the internal reflections back to the cone have been eliminated. From a technical standpoint what you accomplished was to lower the speaker Qa, which tames boomy midbass. The same thing happens when you fill the box with polyester pillow stuffing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Beware!! A Zombie has arisen!! LOL Edited January 22 by BassmanPaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 He seems legit, his post wasn't old stuff copied and pasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I'm only recently realising that the majority of mainstream brands rarely (if ever) bother with damping. It seems to be mainly only the high end/boutique brands. As @Bill Fitzmaurice rightly says, it's nuts because it's so cheap and easy to do! Both of the bargain 15's I've acquired (Ashdown ABM Mini 15 and Trace Elliot compact 15... Kinda) were made in the UK and were regarded as decent quality cabs of their time. Neither have any damping. TBH after modifying the Trace from combo to cab, I was really surprised how poor the construction is! Each join in the box is a very stingy smear of glue (if any) and 4-5 staples. I'd always regarded them as being really well built and bombproof. 🤷 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 22/01/2024 at 22:46, TRBboy said: very stingy smear of glue (if any) and 4-5 staples Glue is best used sparingly, and the staples would keep the cabinet shape while the glue dries. The big problem with Trace was their insistence on using MDF for many cabs. Now MDF is second only to Concrete as a cabinet material, but they have similar issues,,, MASS. As heavy as funk for a given thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 MDF is fine, for home hi-fi cabs. It's gosh awful for anything intended to be portable. Put the blame on using MDF, particle board and worse on Electro-Voice, who used what they called Road-Wood back in the 80s-90s. They said it was 'a structural material made of layered and selectively oriented wood strands'. Translation: OSB! They started using it during a period when plywood prices were high. Ampeg used something similar for a while when it was run by St.Louis Music. It wasn't as heavy as MDF, but it was no more durable either. No engineer worth his salt would ever specify MDF or OSB. That decision would have been made by Bean Counters. 🤔 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 10 hours ago, Chienmortbb said: Glue is best used sparingly, and the staples would keep the cabinet shape while the glue dries. The big problem with Trace was their insistence on using MDF for many cabs. Now MDF is second only to Concrete as a cabinet material, but they have similar issues,,, MASS. As heavy as funk for a given thickness. Yep, appreciate that (former carpenter here). However, there really was virtually nothing holding these corners together; when I cut the portion off that used to house the amp (it was a combo once upon a time), I let it drop on my shed floor, and both corners basically fell apart completely. It was essentially only the staples and corner protectors holding it together. I was just surprised how weak the joints were tbh. 😬 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 The shiny face of MDF isn't glue friendly. You can make it better by opening the pores, but that takes time, time is money, and so it seldom gets done. Staples are great, I use them all the time, but only to hold parts in place while the adhesive sets. They're not structurally sound like screws. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 22/01/2024 at 22:46, TRBboy said: I'm only recently realising that the majority of mainstream brands rarely (if ever) bother with damping. It seems to be mainly only the high end/boutique brands. As @Bill Fitzmaurice rightly says, it's nuts because it's so cheap and easy to do! Both of the bargain 15's I've acquired (Ashdown ABM Mini 15 and Trace Elliot compact 15... Kinda) were made in the UK and were regarded as decent quality cabs of their time. Neither have any damping. TBH after modifying the Trace from combo to cab, I was really surprised how poor the construction is! Each join in the box is a very stingy smear of glue (if any) and 4-5 staples. I'd always regarded them as being really well built and bombproof. 🤷 How is the depleted uranium cab lining fixed into place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, tauzero said: How is the depleted uranium cab lining fixed into place? You’d need some pretty strong adhesive, otherwise there would be fallout. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 25/01/2024 at 21:12, Bill Fitzmaurice said: The shiny face of MDF isn't glue friendly. You can make it better by opening the pores, but that takes time, time is money, and so it seldom gets done. Staples are great, I use them all the time, but only to hold parts in place while the adhesive sets. They're not structurally sound like screws. It's even more fiddly/time consuming, but you can remove the screws once the adhesive has set, drill out the holes and push in tight fitting dowels coated with adhesive. Sand them flat once they have set in place. Handy if you want to profile the edges and don't want to risk ruining your router bit on the screws. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 If I was going to take the time to do that I'd use biscuit joints. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 56 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: If I was going to take the time to do that I'd use biscuit joints. You have good woodworking skills. Most of us, especially me, don't! LOL 😁😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 It's just a matter of having the right tools, and he who dies with the most tools wins. 😉 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: It's just a matter of having the right tools, and he who dies with the most tools wins. 😉 Au contraire mon ami - it's "whoever dies with the most pedals ...". PEDALS!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Pedals are for guitards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Pedals are for guitards. Even you would give a pass to a HPF equipped preamp. Nobody called me a guitard for having a raft of pedals as it made things more interesting, mostly in a good way too I will have you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I do wonder if my Trace would sound better for adding some damping. It sure would suffer for the extra pounds when I can only just hoist it as it sits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Foam or polyester batting would add maybe a quarter of a pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigBass Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 hours ago, Downunderwonder said: I do wonder if my Trace would sound better for adding some damping. It sure would suffer for the extra pounds when I can only just hoist it as it sits. I have a 7215 SMC Combo which I found to be a little "flabby" at volume, not a great word but hopefully you get what I mean. I spent a couple of hours lining the box with two layers of damping material making a layer of about 4cm deep. The difference in sound is huge in my opinion, significantly more controlled. Using words to describe sound is not easy and it is subjective, but in my view the short answer to your question is yes, it is would sound better. Weight wise it's gone up from the weight of a small planet to the weight of a small planet + about 3 ounces 😁 Darren. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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