Changing the fundamental Stingray sound

[Osiris]

[size=4][font=Calibri]I have a Sanberg Basic 4 with a single humbucker in the same position as a Stingray. The trouble is I have a love/hate relationship with the tone; I love the way the bass slices through a full band mix, but find that the fundamental tone is somewhat uninspiring - this is in no way down to the bass or the quality of the Delano pickup and 3 band Glockenklang pre-amp, I'm just not a big fan of [i]that[/i] sound, be it on this bass or a Stingray.[/font]
[font=Calibri]Many people love that Stingray bouncy tone, and that's fine, but it's nasal edge just doesn't do it for me - I miss having the tonal depth provided by a neck pickup. [/font]

[font=Calibri]The obvious thing to do, of course, is to move the bass on and get something that gives the a tone that does it for me. However, in every other respect the bass is perfect, it's no cliché to say that this is one of those basses that is so good to play that it is very difficult to put it down - it just demands to be played. [/font]

[font=Calibri]What I am pondering is what the best course of action is to either change or add to the tonal range of the bass. Several initial thoughts have occurred to me;[/font]

[font=Calibri]I have already fitted thumb rest between the pup and the neck which allows me to play closer to the neck for a more rounded tone but it's not the same as you get from a pickup in the neck position.[/font]

[font=Calibri]Getting a neck pickup fitted is my favourite option but this would obviously incur charges for routing (I don't trust myself to do this without doing some serious damage!) as well as for the pup. I'm not sure if the existing pre-amp allows for a blend pot to be fitted, if not, then there's a new pre-amp to factor in to the equation - unless I go passive, which I'm quite happy to do.[/font]
[font=Calibri]Spending a reasonable amount of money isn't a major issue, but getting someone to do the work for me is obviously a bit of a gamble as I don't know anyone suitable so it'd have to be someone who comes recommended. [/font]

[font=Calibri]Try and see if anyone has a Basic TM4 or preferably a VM4 for trade - bit of a long shot but if anyone has one for trade, please give me a shout![/font]

[font=Calibri]The fundamental tone of the bass is slightly scooped so would getting the pup rewired for a more full range tone make much of a difference? (I tend to play with the bass and amp with their eq's more or less flat).[/font]

[font=Calibri]Or maybe replacing the pup altogether? The [url="http://nordstrandpickups.com/products/mm4-4/"]Nordstrand MM4.4[/url] offers switching between the individual coils as well as series/parallel switching options, so that would certainly open up the tonal options - although I think the fundamental tone of all basses like this is due to pickup position rather than the pups themselves so would I be right in thinking that the last 2 options are probably not going to help too much?[/font]

[font=Calibri]Your suggestions, thoughts and words of wisdom, please, folks. [/font][/size]

[Old Horse Murphy]

I had a passive bypass fitted to my old Ray by Jon Shuker about 6 years ago. Basically, when you pulled out the treble pot it acted as a Passive tone and warmed the sound up massively. I didn't cost a fortune too (well, Jon did it for free )

Edited December 31, 2014 by Old Horse Murphy

[Osiris]

Cheers Nick,

I forgot to add that the bass already has active/passive switching, and while passive mode does indeed warm things up nicely it still has that edge to it that I struggle to get on with!
Although to be fair, I haven't really played the bass in anger in passive mode. I've got nothing to lose by giving it a go.

[Old Horse Murphy]

Definitely worth a try Sid. I'm a bit like you in that I find Stingrays the most comfortable and best looking basses out there, but just don't enjoy the sound of them

[40hz]

Thought about trying flats as a cheap option to see if it changes anything before you do anything drastic? I had a Sandberg Basic, was a fabulous bass

Edited December 31, 2014 by 40hz

[ColinB]

Bump.... 'cos I use flats and have passified my Ray4 and I'm still unsure on the sound. 'Nasal' was a good word.

My first thought (actually, it's my third thought now) is to buy a GFS MM pickup and wire it in with a parallel-series switch.

What d'you think, please.

[Osiris]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

A set of flats is not something that I'd thought of but as 40hz says, it's a cheap option to explore.

I've not come across GFS pickups before but they seem to have some good reviews considering the price.
It's probably worth seeing if the existing pup can also be wired with a series/parallel switch too as this would be an even cheaper option.

Keep the suggestions coming folks!

[Thunderbird]

I think flats are worth a try if it was my bass I would not really fancy having it routed out as 1 that finish is very prone to light cracks no matter how careful you are and 2 I really think it will spoil the bass and not really give you what you are looking for now this is only a guess as I am unsure what the wiring is like in there but would a varitone switch be an option? it would sure give you a better range of tones

As you know I am like you and could never get on with the Stingray type sound is why I moved it on.

I think it could well be worth while giving BC's very own Ki0gan a PM and see what he might suggest as he is very helpful and knows his stuff and his work is second to none on the wiring front

Sorry I cant be much help Oh and happy new year to you and yours mate

[ColinB]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1420116609' post='2645697']
It's probably worth seeing if the existing pup can also be wired with a series/parallel switch too as this would be an even cheaper option.
[/quote]

I've looked.... nope! It's a two-wire p/up.

[Osiris]

[quote name='ColinB' timestamp='1420121737' post='2645768']
I've looked.... nope! It's a two-wire p/up.
[/quote]

That answers that then! Thanks Colin.

Paul, the bass I'm talking about is not the one you replaced the machine heads on, it's another one!
The VM that you did the work on has a humbucker with a reverse P pickup too - it's [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/calv-series/calvm"]one of these[/url]. And for the record, it sounds awesome
And yes, you're right, the high gloss finish probably wouldn't fare to well to having some routing done

The bass in question is a Sandberg Basic [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basic"]like this[/url].
I picked it up 2nd hand a few months ago for an absolute steal. I knew at the time that I wasn't a huge fan of the sound of single humbucker basses but thought that maybe the sound would grow on me after living with it for a while. But it hasn't really; it's in no way a bad sounding bass, just one that doesn't really do it for me. And as mentioned earlier, it feels sublime to play and with the ridiculously low asking price it was stupid not to take it.
The bass is a few years old and has had a lot of use, as such it carries a few scars so I'm not too worried about potentially having a pickup cavity routed in it. It is a natural finish, (possibly oiled?) so as long as the routing gets done properly (if it gets done at all) then it shouldn't make a mess of the body.

Thanks for the recommendation of asking [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Ki0gan, I'll drop him a line and see if he can offer any insights. [/font][/color]

[ColinB]

I've just raided my PayPal account and bought a GFS MM pro plus that has 4-conductor wiring.... but it'll be a while before it arrives. I'll report back!

[Thunderbird]

I could recommend jacks instruments for routing and electrics could post tjem the body off to them

[Osiris]

I've been trying a few of the above suggestions this afternoon and the results are positive!

First off as Nick (Old Horse Murphy) suggested, was to switch the bass in to passive mode. To the naked ear the pre-amp is very transparent, so with the 3 band eq set flat switching between active and passive modes does not change either the tone or the volume of the bass.

The next thing was to play in front of the pickup with my thumb anchored on the thumb rest that I'd already fitted.

Despite the transparent nature of the pre-amp, digging in on the bass with a drum machine for accompaniment, the tone was markedly less nasal than it is in active mode. Yeah, OK, it sounds like I'm contradicting myself here saying that there's no perceivable tonal change between active and passive and yet there is - it's hard to explain, you'd have to hear it to see what I mean

Anyway, I'm much happier with it now so much so that I don't think it's worth the effort and expense of doing anything drastic. This of course may well change....
I'm still tempted to put a set of flats on it at some point, it's currently strung with a set of round wounds that are played in but far from dead (the sound that I like). But for today at least I'm a happy bunny!

[Kiwi]

Erm...I know you had reasons for not selling up but were you aware there was a Basic model which fitted your requirements almost precisely?



http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basic-kt

[Osiris]

Thanks Kiwi. Yes, I was aware that there are a few different pickup configurations available for the Basic model
Unfortunately under the circumstances, the bass that came along was the one with my least favourite of pickup configuration - it's still a hell of a bass though and in truth I'm probably being a bit pedantic about the sound.

In an ideal world I'd have a [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basicvm"]Basic VM[/url] with a reverse P pickup in addition to the humbucker, or I'd be quite happy with the [url="http://www.sandberg-guitars.de/basscat-overview/basic-series-top/basictm"]Basic TM[/url] which has a single coil at the neck alongside the humbucker. But then again I also have a California VM and that absolutely nails the tone I want!