Evil Undead Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'm thinking about having some lessons this year. I really would like to improve my playing, theory (chords, scales, modes, intervals etc) and mainly just be able to play along with anything that comes up on the radio and be in tune. Ha! I don't really feel the need to learn to read (have always struggled with that and can't see why I'd need it, I'm a bedroom player mainly), but have been told that it's the easiest way to learn to just jam along with stuff like I want to. I'm not dismissing that but finding it hard to understand why it's the case. Is it true? If so, why? If not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Undead Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 If it helps explain what I'm after... I'd love to be able to listen to a song, identify the key and know what chords apply and what notes would fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Sounds like you probably need to learn a bit of basic theory regarding scales/chord tones, and some aural stuff to help identify intervals etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Undead Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think so too really need to find a teacher that will help me along that path Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1420239367' post='2647175'] I don't really feel the need to learn to read (have always struggled with that and can't see why I'd need it, I'm a bedroom player mainly), but have been told that it's the easiest way to learn to just jam along with stuff like I want to. I'm not dismissing that but finding it hard to understand why it's the case. Is it true? If so, why? If not, why not? [/quote] Put me in a classroom and I'm going to absorb about 10% of the content at best. Give me the course notes, a cup of coffee and a quiet corner and I'll absorb 100% of it in a matter of hours. We all learn in different ways, the secret is to identify [b]how[/b] you learn and use that as your starting point. EDIT: Reading the posts since I started replying to this, you sound very much like a person who learns best in a more 'formal' setting. Edited January 2, 2015 by icastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1420239478' post='2647178'] If it helps explain what I'm after... I'd love to be able to listen to a song, identify the key and know what chords apply and what notes would fit. [/quote] A few lessons from a teacher is always going to be well worth your while. Learning some basic theory is also well worth the time and effort. Having said the above, you can also do a lot on your own to achieve the goal you mention. Try playing along to some simple songs that you like. With trial and error, try to work out the bass lines. There are lots of clips on You Tube with bass covers of songs, where the bass is easy to hear. Though you might not care much for blues music, IMO it is a great genre for learning basic bass lines. Search You Tube for names like Buddy Guy, Peter Greene, Eric Clapton and BB King. Once you learn some basic theory, the penny will drop and you will begin to recognize certain chords and patterns that come up often. Until you do get a teacher, a good site to slowly work through (start at the very beginning of the lessons) is : [url="http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/"]http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/[/url] The great thing about this site is that it starts with the basics and gradually builds from there, so there are no gaps in the learning process. Edited January 3, 2015 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1420293367' post='2647615'] A few lessons from a teacher is always going to be well worth your while. Learning some basic theory is also well worth the time and effort. Having said the above, you can also do a lot on your own to achieve the goal you mention. Try playing along to some simple songs that you like. With trial and error, try to work out the bass lines. There are lots of clips on You Tube with bass covers of songs, where the bass is easy to hear. Once you learn some basic theory, the penny will drop and you will begin to recognize certain chords and patterns that come up often. Until you do get a teacher, a good site to slowly work through (start at the very beginning of the lessons) is : [url="http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/"]http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/[/url] [/quote] Beaten to the StudyBass link by 3 minutes! Edited January 3, 2015 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1420293576' post='2647620'] Beaten to the StudyBass link by 3 minutes! [/quote] [size=4] Sorry about that....!!... but yes...the lessons are well presented and easy to understand.[/size] [size=4]I certainly learned a lot from it.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Good teachers aren't just good players. They understand the art of teaching. A good teacher will identify what you need and set you on a path that suits your way of learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 [quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1420239478' post='2647178'] If it helps explain what I'm after... I'd love to be able to listen to a song, identify the key and know what chords apply and what notes would fit. [/quote] Hi Mel, Try taking out a trial-start with Scotts Bass Lessons Academy. I'm registered there and I've learned loads. We also get to have live Q&A sessions with Ed Freidland, Anthony Wellington and Danny Mo Morris. For about £55 a year it's really cheap compared to a 1-2-1 teacher and the theory you learn is all you can handle. www.scottsbasslessons.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1420294489' post='2647652'] Good teachers aren't just good players. They understand the art of teaching. A good teacher will identify what you need and set you on a path that suits your way of learning. [/quote] Well said, there are 1 or 2 guys I know who are amazing musicians yet pretty awful teachers, yet they teach at a well respected music college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I've tried to combine three subjects in my lessons with Jake Newman, I started mainly for double bass lessons but I have a proportion of the lesson on theory to relate the practice pieces to, scales for trying to learn where the actual notes on a blank neck are for example, because the text books are done in notation by association my reading has improved (a little) our own doddy taught me to read in the first place about four years ago. I'll never be able to sight read and never need it to get a gig but understanding the theory has been easier being able to read. A good teacher should get you going with something suitable but be warned, for everything you learn with theory you will have two new questions! My ability to jam has improved loads since learning more theory which sounds like what you want to do,I can read a chord chart and add a few extra notes in knowing they will work before anyone has struck a chord, it's all smoke and mirrors but it looks like you have extra powers, lol Good luck whichever way you go with it Edited January 3, 2015 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I studied under Matt Downer (http://www.matthewdowner.com/) for a while and learnt a lot and improved my technique no end. I did however, struggle with reading music. I would always have to point and count up the lines and gaps on the notation to work out which note it was. Even if I memorised the positions it would take me a few seconds to work out the position. Too many lines and gaps and little reference to an anchor point for me. However, Matt taught me that if you know the key the song's in, and you know the chord you're playing over then you'll know which notes are in the chord. If you know the spacing between those on your bass then you look at the notation and kinda just judge the spacing in between those you can play along. You end up not reading each note but rather you read the pattern they form on the page and adapt that to the position of the notes on your bass. So that all made sense to me but I still sucked at it. Maybe it works for you though. Try not and read the notes individually, but see them as the ups and downs in the scale. He also taught me theory (chords/modes/etc.) and technique and practice routines. Bass Fitness http://www.halleonard.com/product/viewproduct.do?itemid=660177&menuid=500&subsiteid=7& is a very good book of finger exercises - play them very slowly - 60bpm then slooowwwwly increase the tempo. Those exercises now make it easy for me to flow up and down a scale with ease and fluidity. The theory means I can look at a chord chart and know what to play over the top of them. My timing is better too. So that's what I got out of lessons myself. I struggled with theory a lot as I need to have a practical implementation of anything in order for it to sink in. An hour of theory will only get 5 mins of that sinking in. 5 minutes of theory and 55 mins of playing around with it and implementing it in a piece I'm recording will work nicely. I'm sure someone on here said that even if you don't need to learn to read music to play, it'll open up a whole world of study material that uses it. But I'm like yourself Evil, I can't see a situation where I'll use it. I play in originals bands so don't play songs that are written down. I do still try and go back and learn it a little though. At the very least I would be able to write down my basslines so I don't forget them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontalste Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'll go out on a limb & say that you can teach yourself what you'd like to do. To play along to songs you need to know how intervals (search intervals in 28 days on jazzearadvice) sound & have a good working knowledge of the circle of fifths. You can pick out the key of a song by listening, hum one note that works all through the song & you won't be far off then use the circle to decipher the chords. If you try to figure songs out without putting in a little ground work first you'll get frustrated. It's so much easier once you've trained your ear to recognise intervals. I'm sat here now watching Spiderman & hearing the intervals in the score, sad I know. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Then again, there's always Carol Kayes skype lessons! https://www.carolkaye.com/lessons/index.php?cPath=24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Undead Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thanks for the opinions and suggestions everyone! Really appreciate the responses. Ian hit the nail on the head, I don't learn well at all from books, Internet, even videos. I've tried and tried, but it doesn't sink in. The most I've ever learned musically is from having a one-to-one teacher. I know that learning to read the dots would be a handy skill to have but I really can't see when I'd use it. I've really struggled with it in the past (had piano and violin lessons, still can't read a note) but would be willing to give it a whirl if necessary. As Pete says, I just wanna be able to jam and look like I've got a musical superpower haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just a quick response to the comments about reading; to be a proficient sight reader takes years and is a skill that needs constant attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1420374092' post='2648487'] Just a quick response to the comments about reading; to be a proficient sight reader takes years and is a skill that needs constant attention. [/quote] I would add that 'sight reading' is not the same as 'reading'. For an armchair warrior such as myself, I'll never be challenged to read, off the cuff, an elaborate or unknown piece. I have enough time to work out what I'm looking at, and rarely attempt Stravinsky. Basic, beginner scores are very simple to take on, although laborious at first (as with all apprenticeships...). For bedroom playing, it comes quickly enough, although I totally agree that it needs maintenance to stay assimilated. Ten minutes of reading from a method book, twice a day, will bring it on quite readily, imo. Far from enough for pit work, but very satisfying to be able to slowly work through a Bach prelude (other pieces are available... [size=4]).[/size] Just my tuppence-worth. Edited January 4, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1420374092' post='2648487'] Just a quick response to the comments about reading; to be a proficient sight reader takes years and is a skill that needs constant attention. [/quote] As I said, I cant sight read but I can read and enjoy books in notation,just slowly. The sort of theory required to look like you know what is what is mostly in notation ime. I'm the same Mel, 2 hours with Jake can get me much further than hours looking at a screen or a book, that said again having Jake teach me what is on a page of the book for me to learn then gets me to understand the next few pages on my own until the next lesson, I'm due a lesson actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1420366951' post='2648392'] Ian hit the nail on the head, I don't learn well at all from books, Internet, even videos. I've tried and tried, but it doesn't sink in. The most I've ever learned musically is from having a one-to-one teacher. [/quote] Yep - I'm totally the opposite, always have been. The only reason I got qualifications when I left school was because I'd take library books out and relearn the parts of the various lessons that made no sense to me. We're all wired differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou24d53 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I've been struggling with similar for two years now. Tried the 'at home' thing and also tried the 'teacher' route, twice and not been successful. I'm almost looking for a classroom setting where I could learn with others as a group, sadly, I've yet to find anything of this ilk anywhere in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It doesn't matter how fast you can play or how many scales you know. If you can't play or hang with the blues, you might as well hang it up. Learn the blues and then build on it. You can apply the the blues to every genre of music. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I've always played by ear. Although everyone tells me that bass is more conventional with pick or fingers...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420591436' post='2651178'] It doesn't matter how fast you can play or how many scales you know. If you can't play or hang with the blues, you might as well hang it up. Learn the blues and then build on it. You can apply the the blues to every genre of music. Blue [/quote] Isn't most, if not all, of modern rock and pop and every music style related to those genres derived from blues? I think I may do as you suggested and go back and try and nail a lot of blues patterns. There's a tonne of backing tracks and apps out there with blues styles on so there's no shortage of material to jam to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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