Speaker Emulator (high frequencies only)

[Dood]

I'm integrating a new drive pedal in to my set up which I believe is designed with tweeter-less cabinets in mind. My system is quite the opposite, which at times is more akin to a personal PA rig. (It doesn't like drive pedals plugged straight in as you can imagine!)

So, what I would like to do is to be able to switch in both the drive AND a speaker emulation when needed. I've tested the theory with a 30 band EQ and I have been really happy with the results, but it's way too bulky I feel when sat next to this drive pedal.

The only thing I don't want to do is to touch the low end frequencies at all. I know that many emulators do a great job of rounding off the top and low end for guitarists but I want to just achieve the 'going tweeterless' effect without having to reach round the back of the cabinet.

Other than a custom design, is there anything on the market (small as possible I guess) that could fulfil this task?

[berme]

http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/microcab/

Contact Max for a bass version.

[HowieBass]

Can't you use something like an EQ stomp box, such as the Ashdown 12 band graphic EQ DI pedal and drop everything above about 5Khz? A cab sim will colour the tone which you might like, but there again you might not...

[Dood]

That's true - the EQ I have is a half rack and I was hoping to find something smaller - the only thing that concerns me with an EQ is whether or not the EQ centres on a 7 band pedal are going to be close enough for fine 'editing'. I do have a basic graphic pedal here and it don't sound that great! That said, MXR do a graphic pedal which might work well. Berme, thank you - yes I'd thought about Max already actually. Just wondered if I'd missed anything on the market that might suit or possibly easy to tailor the filter shape (hence the thoughts about an EQ)

[Beer of the Bass]

There's not much available off the shelf to do this job without also simulating the low cut and mid dip of a guitar cab, but I wonder if some of the more flexible filter pedals could pull it off. A fairly steep lowpass filter set at the right frequency (2-5KHz depending on the speaker you're trying to emulate) with no envelope control and minimum resonance might get you close.
I've thought about DIYing something to do this job but never got round to it as I'm currently between bands.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beer of the Bass

[LukeFRC]

there may be 101 reasons why this wouldn't work....

what would happen if you fed the signal after the drive pedal into a passive low pass filter (i.e. a tone knob: cap and var. resistor) to roll the top end off?

Edited January 3, 2015 by LukeFRC

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1420316714' post='2648068']
there may be 101 reasons why this wouldn't work....

what would happen if you fed the signal after the drive pedal into a passive low pass filter (i.e. a tone knob) to roll the top end off?
[/quote]

It can work to some extent and the older BSS DI boxes had a switch to do this at either 4 or 8 KHz. A passive filter gives you a much shallower slope than the natural roll-off of a speaker though, so it's not going to be quite the same.

[Dood]

I could probably fashion a 12-24db/oct type filter for the job - but I'm lazy lol!

[Dood]

I suppose in some ways it's the opposite of Max's 'Thumpinator'! Thinking forward, maybe a Thumpinator with variable high freq roll off could be just the ticket! You saw it here first!

[Kiwi]

Guitar Rig Kontrol will do what you ask easily. Not sure if a software based solution is what you are after though.

[dudewheresmybass]

Don't flame me here, but the mooer micro di might fit the bill.
Perhaps worth a try?

[JapanAxe]

I have had good results recording bass via a Behringer GI100 connected to the speaker output of a practice amp - it simulates a 4x12 cab, so doesn't lose much (if any) bottom end. They go for £25-£30. Only trouble is, the output is balanced, so you would have to rig up some kind of adaptor lead.

[Ant]

Could get max to cook up another one of these, super steep drop off of everything above 5khz

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1420361355' post='2648325']



Could get max to cook up another one of these, super steep drop off of everything above 5khz
[/quote]

Nice fabric!

[Prime_BASS]

On my COG preamp there is a -12db per octave roll off at 3khz on both the output and XLR output. Both can be turned on/off independantly..

The sun coast I have really cooks tweeters and and hates the clean sparkle on most PAs, this works a treat. But I'm going to get a passive palmer DI that has a speaker emulator.

[Ant]

that is some jazzy fabric, some guy on TB has it, yeah with my suncoast i use my palmer PDI-09, passive just makes it convenient

[Dood]

So that'll be my suncoast we're talking about too then

I'll have a think and reply tomorrow!

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1420408637' post='2649140']
So that'll be my suncoast we're talking about too then

I'll have a think and reply tomorrow!
[/quote]

That'll be you, me and Ant with one with a similar issue. It hates clean top end cabs/PAs.

I'm getting the palmer di as it'll solve the PA top end problem, and the DI on my head is knackered.
Do markbass not have some sort of pedal that just has the filters on? One is basically an LPF

[Ant]

they used to do the super boost DI with the filters, if you put something like that or the SFX pedal in the loop (which comes after the eq etc and before the limiter)
then the roll off should only be in effect with the suncoast engaged

[Dood]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1420409444' post='2649156']
That'll be you, me and Ant with one with a similar issue. It hates clean top end cabs/PAs.

I'm getting the palmer di as it'll solve the PA top end problem, and the DI on my head is knackered.
Do markbass not have some sort of pedal that just has the filters on? One is basically an LPF

[/quote]

Yeah, I think that does ring true to the design though as it is a preamp in a pedal box rather than a distortion pedal. Using a guitar amp as a reference you'd get exactly the same effect taking a feed from a guitar amplifier's preamp output. It is heavily treble boosted to compensate the top end roll off of (typically 12") guitar speakers. As we are using a considerably more hifi speaker set up, those boosted trebles need taming. Had the Suncoast been designed as a stand alone pedal, I suspect it would have been 'tuned' to calm that top end a bit.



[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1420411059' post='2649194']
they used to do the super boost DI with the filters, if you put something like that or the SFX pedal in the loop (which comes after the eq etc and before the limiter)
then the roll off should only be in effect with the suncoast engaged
[/quote]

That's a very good point! the filter could be left in an 'always on' state,

[Dood]

[color="#1e1e1e"][font="Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="4"]I like the idea of the Palmer, the Mooer Micro Di and the Markbass with the VLE/VPF controls on and I'd especially be up for anything with a small foot print as the reason I got this pedal is to save on space and not have to take the BSP out everywhere. [/size][/font][/color]

[Ant]

i think the palmer and the mooer would be unsuitable as the speaker emulation rolloffs only happen on the XLR out,

so you wouldnt be able to apply them just to the suncoast, where as with something like the custom screaminator above, you could.


plus, with a custom option you can tune exactly which frequencies are cut, leaving the low end unaltered.

i say going with any sort of killer filter or EQ in the suncoast loop is your best bet, something tiny

Edited January 5, 2015 by Ant

[Dood]

[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1420455934' post='2649435']
i think the palmer and the mooer would be unsuitable as the speaker emulation rolloffs only happen on the XLR out,

so you wouldnt be able to apply them just to the suncoast, where as with something like the custom screaminator above, you could.

plus, with a custom option you can tune exactly which frequencies are cut, leaving the low end unaltered.

i say going with any sort of killer filter or EQ in the suncoast loop is your best bet, something tiny
[/quote]

I really prefer the idea of being able to customise the slope as one of my problems with a filter is that it's not possible to tailor depending on the rig you are using. It does seem daft running a bass speaker simulator in to a bass speaker cabinet! I'm investigating the EQ route too, but what would be super cool on the B1P is that little emulator button from the Tech 21VT Bass DI!

[Ant]

a Torpedo C.A.B simulator in the loop could work too, but they're massive and expensive

[url="http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-cab/"]http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-cab/[/url]

but could have several different settings saved for differing rigs and sounds.

total overkill though i imagine.

if you find some sort of shelving EQ that can slope the treble off loads after a given point, please let me know

[Dood]

[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1420469872' post='2649650']
a Torpedo C.A.B simulator in the loop could work too, but they're massive and expensive

[url="http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-cab/"]http://www.two-notes...re/torpedo-cab/[/url]

but could have several different settings saved for differing rigs and sounds.

total overkill though i imagine.

if you find some sort of shelving EQ that can slope the treble off loads after a given point, please let me know
[/quote]

Yeah, I think that is waaay more than I need - my friends are using one for tracking an album at the moment and it's sounding really good. What I am trying to achieve is a way of shrinking down my usual rack set up in to just a few pedals. I'd kinda hoped the B1P would be self contained - I suppose it *is* if you are using an Ampeg fridge with no tweeter - but I like to use other sounds that *do* use a tweeter so being able to control that top end with as few components as possible is going to be my way forward.

I think I'll drop Suncoast a mail to discuss it - maybe it is something they have already thought about. Not a deal breaker but it's a pedal that is almost there!

Going custom may well be the way - for my own deliberation I've already found some graphic equaliser chips that would be really easy to program a fixed custom slope in to. Just as soon as I've figured out what that slope should be. For that I am going to look at the top end roll off of a number of favoured distortion friendly bass speakers, then copy the rolloff on the frequency response diagrams on to my 30 band graphic. Test, then tweak. It's quick, it's dirty and it's not very scientific, but it may give me some interesting results!