EssentialTension Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420396364' post='2648864'] That's a load of bollocks about if one person doesn't agree then you don't do it! Grow up, it's just a song. It's not like you're asking them to be injected with ebola. In our band if someone suggests something we learn it. We see if it works well to decide whether we keep it. I find it incredibly pathetic when people won't play songs cos they don't like them or the band. Childish! [/quote] It's actually more like having a grown up discussion, trying out the song, having a further grown up discussion, and having a vote if necessary. It's wholly the opposite of childish. We did once experience a childish person but they are no longer with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1420404849' post='2649059'] It's actually more like having a grown up discussion, trying out the song, having a further grown up discussion, and having a vote if necessary. It's wholly the opposite of childish. We did once experience a childish person but they are no longer with us. [/quote]That's isn't not doing a song just because someone doesn't like it. Isn't the thing you said pretty much the same thing i said in the middle of that quote, or am i misunderstanding your post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420402541' post='2649012'] I'm in bands with people who are emotionally stable enough to play a a tune without it causing resentment! I'm not on about playing an entire setlist of songs everyone in the band hates. [/quote] I think you'll get away with that once or twice but after a while people can think they are bored with this. I don't want a band going through the motions just because they get paid, personally. If it is not fun too often, for whatever reason, that is the route to a tired old unit...and even if the bands members stay, they might stay because they find the money useful. The hardest thing about a band is change...and it is just easier to do the same old thing... which is why most bands should quit..certainly after 5 years...give or take, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420405271' post='2649065'] I think you'll get away with that once or twice but after a while people can think they are bored with this. I don't want a band going through the motions just because they get paid, personally. If it is not fun too often, for whatever reason, that is the route to a tired old unit...and even if the bands members stay, they might stay because they find the money useful. The hardest thing about a band is change...and it is just easier to do the same old thing... which is why most bands should quit..certainly after 5 years...give or take, IMO. [/quote]Yeah, you'll get bored of playing songs you like and end up hating them. Why is change so difficult though. just learn new tunes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelfin Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 We're a three piece. If one suggests a song it takes a strong nay from any of the other two for us not to do it. Even then if we can't nail it in one evening session then it's a no go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420405363' post='2649069'] Yeah, you'll get bored of playing songs you like and end up hating them. Why is change so difficult though. just learn new tunes! [/quote] Yes, but I didn't start out bored... And change isn't so difficult if you retain the enthusiasm and energy to do so... which is why you don't want to kill it prematurely picking songs that someone hates/resents/doesn't fancy etc etc etc .. It takes a lot of effort to pick an imaginative set that is not overdone/flogged to death by other bands in your area and keep it fresh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420405262' post='2649064'] That's isn't not doing a song just because someone doesn't like it. Isn't the thing you said pretty much the same thing i said in the middle of that quote, or am i misunderstanding your post! [/quote] Nowhere did I say we don't do songs 'just because someone doesn't like it'. There's a process with both originals and with covers but, in the end, if someone is not satisfied for whatever reason, then we don't go ahead - all-for-one and one-for-all. If someone were to be so childish as to go 'Na na I'm not doing that' then they wouldn't be with us for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1420398055' post='2648900'] ... Any kid can play covers, can't they? [/quote] I thought it was the other way around. Anyone can play originals - rubbish ones perhaps but anyone can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1420407430' post='2649110'] Nowhere did I say we don't do songs 'just because someone doesn't like it'. There's a process with both originals and with covers but, in the end, if someone is not satisfied for whatever reason, then we don't go ahead - all-for-one and one-for-all. If someone were to be so childish as to go 'Na na I'm not doing that' then they wouldn't be with us for long. [/quote] No, but people in the thread had said that. Also, the bit of my post which you quoted said [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420396364' post='2648864'] That's a load of bollocks about if one person doesn't agree then you don't do it! Grow up, it's just a song. It's not like you're asking them to be injected with ebola. In our band if someone suggests something we learn it. We see if it works well to decide whether we keep it. I find it incredibly pathetic when people won't play songs cos they don't like them or the band. Childish! [/quote] Then you said [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1420404849' post='2649059'] It's actually more like having a grown up discussion, trying out the song, having a further grown up discussion, and having a vote if necessary. It's wholly the opposite of childish. We did once experience a childish person but they are no longer with us. [/quote] So obvioulsy i assumed you were talking about not doing a song because someone doesn't want to and saying it wasn't childish. i even mentioned the bit about trying it out being similar to what i said. And was i misunderstanding you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1420407889' post='2649121'] I thought it was the other way around. Anyone can play originals - rubbish ones perhaps but anyone can do it. [/quote] true dat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420408111' post='2649128'] ... And was i misunderstanding you! [/quote] Well maybe I am misunderstanding you but, either way, I don't see the position I and others were taking as being at all childish. I think it's eminently sensible and adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 We've had songs suggested that we just wouldn't do... as they just didn't fit. We also resisted 'sex on fire' for eons and even put in Mollie Chambers to get past that KoL 'request'. We thought is a better song...but of course, nowhere near as popular. We only ever did 'sex on fire' when the fee was good enough... and that was a unnaminous decision. Apart from playing the songs well, I think song choice is critical and my pet hate is that a lot of bands around here don't give it much thought. They'll pick everyone else set as they think they will make them as popular... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1420407889' post='2649121'] I thought it was the other way around. Anyone can play originals - rubbish ones perhaps but anyone can do it. [/quote] It's true - I only made that comment to annoy Lord Sausage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I suggest a song. The drummer agrees. The guitarist agrees. The singers agree. We play it, if it's too much hard work or isn't sounding right, we ditch it. We have a running whatsapp thread for those "heard this on the radio" type suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1420409372' post='2649152'] It's true - I only made that comment to annoy Lord Sausage. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 [quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1420404205' post='2649050'] Playing Abba stuff got me into them. I got a gig playing take that, abba and some other pop stuff. Not really my bag at the time. But after that gig I appreciated it loads more and actually got into it! [/quote] Absolutely. I enjoyed the same with a Dire Straits tribute. You hear the songs so often you lose sight of how good the writing is and just how good they are to play - especially the bass parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vsmith1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm now feeling that even after 5 years our band is more "immature" than many of the stories told here. We started, once I'd set it up, with a Google Sheet shared between the band members to suggest, then score (1-5) songs for inclusion. We all, myself included, suggested songs that a) liked playable c) for me personally - I wanted to stretch myself - so sometimes wanted more technically difficult bass lines d) dance-able - as we are a pub covers band. Well that lasted about 3 years and many things got picked up and done and then dropped. We are a mix of people with a wide variety of tastes. Our drummer is very WOMAD-oriented so a lot of obscure stuff; the key/BV has a more folk/country/pop; I'm more rock/blues/funk; the guitarists wants an easy play (he has little time for practice) and the singer wants songs she can sing and wants to sing. I think that's a recipe for either great compromise or tensions. The answer has been both. We have a set list that features 40+ songs that we do in a gig. So pretty much I think we have succeeded. Nowadays it feels like that the singer has a casting vote/veto - the "if I can't sing it then we shouldn't do it". I confess that I have as about as much knowledge of modern (chart) pop songs as I have about the words in the Magna Carta. The only time I get any exposure is via Later...with Jools - which is variable. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The weak link in my current band is quite clearly the singer so now I'm not learning anything until he's sorted his part out after wasting time over and again learning stuff that I thought we had all agreed on only for him to not come up with the goods. Before you ask I've been looking for a new project for about 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The singer is the key focal point between you and the audience so there is no point having them do a song they murder... Having said that, they may have good chemistry with a crowd and that can get you so far, but it is unlikely to have a great singer and a great frontman..they are like hen's teeth, IME. Personally, I go for the best singer and put a good band round them and that can be enough to connect if the singer hasn't got that.. You definitely need one of the two, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420451198' post='2649372'] The singer is the key focal point between you and the audience so there is no point having them do a song they murder... Having said that, they may have good chemistry with a crowd and that can get you so far, but it is unlikely to have a great singer and a great frontman..they are like hen's teeth, IME. Personally, I go for the best singer and put a good band round them and that can be enough to connect if the singer hasn't got that.. You definitely need one of the two, IMO. [/quote]yep, our band wouldn't be nearly the same without the singer, lets face it we can all learn almost any song if we practice at it (even if we cheat a little) but if the singer can't sing it that's it, we've ditched one or two songs because we had to alter the key that much they just didn't work, Communication Breakdown and Offsprings the Kids Aren't Alright. spring to mind, both very high key, although we did pull off Slade's Merry Christmas in spite of having to lower it 5 semitones, so you never can tell Edited January 5, 2015 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Agreed. Whereas many players can get away with being lacklustre on numbers they don't enjoy, a singer just can't. The old adage about not being able to sell a product you don't believe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd agree in part, the material has to suit the vocalist(s) and to this end we work out if a given song indeed be sung, but we don't generally have issues of 'I don't really like it, therefore I'm not going to try' or 'its beneath my musical intellect' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1420453480' post='2649409'] I'd agree in part, the material has to suit the vocalist(s) and to this end we work out if a given song indeed be sung, but we don't generally have issues of 'I don't really like it, therefore I'm not going to try' or 'its beneath my musical intellect' [/quote] That is why we give the singer the final sanction ...they choose the key and they then have to deliver it. If either of those things don't work, then we have to drop the song. I've had many a great suggestion, IMO, dropped because of that..but you trust the singer is doing it for the right reasons rather than just doesn't want to do it.. This is where you need trust and a good band ethic about it and that is why you also need to keep everyone pulling in the same direction for as long as posible, but as time wears on, this gets harder to do to any reasonable level as loads of other stuff can get in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420453946' post='2649416'] That is why we give the singer the final sanction ...they choose the key and they then have to deliver it. If either of those things don't work, then we have to drop the song. I've had many a great suggestion, IMO, dropped because of that..but you trust the singer is doing it for the right reasons rather than just doesn't want to do it.. This is where you need trust and a good band ethic about it and that is why you also need to keep everyone pulling in the same direction for as long as posible, but as time wears on, this gets harder to do to any reasonable level as loads of other stuff can get in the way. [/quote] The vocals are the main thrust of our band, we have four vocalists who can take a lead vocal and this also provides strong combinations of backing vocals. If one can't sing something we try it amongst the others or a male and female vocal doubled, but if its really not working then we move on. Given their own choice of material, I know from bitter experience that they'd occupy there own comfort zone, so it works best if they're given a little (ahem) 'direction' - the thing is, for all of the 'cussing and fussing they really do like to bask in the post gig feed back, of 'you don't hear such and such live' or 'so much better than the typical bands that we see here" Weird thing is that we never choose material based upon tasty bass lines. Edited January 5, 2015 by No lust in Jazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I have no issues with the singer turning stuff down if it's beyond him or switching keys etc. He's not an awful singer, just not great either and a reasonable but not great front man. It's just annoying the length of time it takes him to get a song anywhere near giggable standard having agreed to do it. We started doing Jumping Jack Flash at least 8 months ago, he still hasn't got the lyrics correct and I suspect he now never will. The other thing is he has turned down songs because he doesn't think us lowly backing singers can handle the bvox well enough (before we've even tried it in a rehearsal!) yet perserveres with other songs that he frankly murders the lead vox on every gig. Bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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