TimR Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I suppose I like to listen to and play a range of genres. I'm using limiting in the sense of playing in a pub rock band means that I play pub rock. In a jazz trio I play jazz. I can't see these two crossing over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420756571' post='2653224'] I suppose I like to listen to and play a range of genres. I'm using limiting in the sense of playing in a pub rock band means that I play pub rock. In a jazz trio I play jazz. I can't see these two crossing over. [/quote] I'm a Rock & Roll guy, what do I know other than how to have fun. I'm not sure what [i]"pub rock"[/i] is. We play everything from Peter Green to Dusty Springfield and Robin Trower to Nancy Sinatra. Plenty of variety and certainly not limiting for me. My position remains, I like to listen to and play a range of genres too. However, I don't think you have to be in 2 bands to do it. Don't get me wrong, some of you guys like being in multiple projects, nothing wrong with diversity. Just not for me. [i]"One Band, The Right Band"[/i] Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420715165' post='2652391'] Be honest with yourself about what you want. Be honest with the other members about what you want.[/quote] This is crucial, and if not being in a band or a band that doesn't gig is the type of band you want, don't be pressured to be in a band or gig. You won't have as much fun, but you will be happy. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420760255' post='2653266'] This is crucial, and if not being in a band or a band that doesn't gig is the type of band you want, don't be pressured to be in a band or gig. You won't have as much fun, but you will be happy. Blue [/quote] They seemed happy and I did stick around until the band folded a few months later, but by then I was already gigging with another band. Maybe Pub Rock and Classic Rock are similar things. I just differentiate it to be a pub (bar) band as opposed to a disco/soul/other/function type band. One band was playing 60s/70s light pop (Beatles etc), the other is very much more rock. It has a completely different audience. . Edited January 9, 2015 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420759043' post='2653251'] I'm a Rock & Roll guy, what do I know other than how to have fun. I'm not sure what [i]"pub rock"[/i] is. We play everything from Peter Green to Dusty Springfield and Robin Trower to Nancy Sinatra. Plenty of variety and certainly not limiting for me. My position remains, I like to listen to and play a range of genres too. However, I don't think you have to be in 2 bands to do it. Don't get me wrong, some of you guys like being in multiple projects, nothing wrong with diversity. Just not for me. [i]"One Band, The Right Band"[/i] Blue [/quote] I assume this is because your gigs are 4 sets long then you have to be all things to all men .. Pub bands here tend to be a feature and therefore the band will have a theme. They will be blues, or metal or ...but they wont stretch too far off those genres. That is why you only want to hear them for 90 mins max..and they'll mostly only be able to handle one style anyway. Having said that, they are some very good one trickers around, A band that plays more than 90 mins (2x45) tends to be a function band and they don't cross over into pubs too well...in that they'd have a function set and pub set...generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420756571' post='2653224'] I suppose I like to listen to and play a range of genres. I'm using limiting in the sense of playing in a pub rock band means that I play pub rock. In a jazz trio I play jazz. I can't see these two crossing over. [/quote] Try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1420802261' post='2653530'] Try. [/quote] It's hard enough trying to get the drummer, vocalist and guitarist to agree on a 'Classic Rock' tune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420800918' post='2653499'] I assume this is because your gigs are 4 sets long then you have to be all things to all men .. Pub bands here tend to be a feature and therefore the band will have a theme. They will be blues, or metal or ...but they wont stretch too far off those genres. That is why you only want to hear them for 90 mins max..and they'll mostly only be able to handle one style anyway. Having said that, they are some very good one trickers around, A band that plays more than 90 mins (2x45) tends to be a function band and they don't cross over into pubs too well...in that they'd have a function set and pub set...generally. [/quote] Yeah we play 4 hour shows and we still can't fit all our material in. Interesting I was thinking a [i]"pub band"[/i] was the sames as what we call [i]"bar/club bands"[/i]. Now it's apparent they're not the same at all. All this comes back to understanding what you want out of a [i]"band experience"[/i] If you don't know what you want, you won't know how to pick a band that's a match for you. Knowing what you want and whats realistic and feasible can be challenging. Blue Edited January 9, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420837198' post='2654191'] Interesting I was thinking a [i]"pub band"[/i] was the sames as what we call [i]"bar/club bands"[/i]. Now it's apparent they not the same at all. [/quote] Sadly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The other thing is that bands tend to set the agenda and providing they don't stray too far off it, they'll get work. It may only be in pubs as they are more tolerant but that may be all they want anyway. Other bands may well use pubs as a launch-pad to ticketed events which will pay more. If you can get a pub large enough to sell 100 tickets then that can put the band fee upto over £500 per night which means the band keeps that figure and the pub is happy as it makes a killing on the drinks.. But again, this is a feature and the band will be the draw. They may well have/need a slightly more pro show as well... Function work is dictated ..largely ..by what the client wants, ( they want a soul band, they get a soul band ) whereas pub work is more buy what we are selling, music-wise...typically. People will go to their local music pub on the basis of who is playing and stay away if they don't rate them. Pass-by trade bars don't tend to do that well musically, unless the band playing is the draw. This is how is works around here, anyway. Pubs are specialist music venues or strive to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420841544' post='2654248'] The other thing is that bands tend to set the agenda and providing they don't stray too far off it, they'll get work. It may only be in pubs as they are more tolerant but that may be all they want anyway. Other bands may well use pubs as a launch-pad to ticketed events which will pay more. If you can get a pub large enough to sell 100 tickets then that can put the band fee upto over £500 per night which means the band keeps that figure and the pub is happy as it makes a killing on the drinks.. But again, this is a feature and the band will be the draw. They may well have/need a slightly more pro show as well... Function work is dictated ..largely ..by what the client wants, ( they want a soul band, they get a soul band ) whereas pub work is more buy what we are selling, music-wise...typically. People will go to their local music pub on the basis of who is playing and stay away if they don't rate them. Pass-by trade bars don't tend to do that well musically, unless the band playing is the draw. This is how is works around here, anyway. Pubs are specialist music venues or strive to be. [/quote] Wow! it is really different. The top of the bar scale for 4 hours over here is $500.00 at least in Milwaukee. Bar bands over here can be alll over the place. And over here, cover at the door at the door or selling tickets is frowned upon by most bar bands. We will not play anywhere that charges a cover for the band.Charge at the door usually means small crowd. Even if a band has a decent draw, pay at the door still does not fit the business model of most bar bands. Selling tickets and paying $5.00 to get into the back room where the band plays is strictly for our originals bands. Blue Here's an example, I have seen Greg play places where there's a cover and the place will be empty. Most of you will get my point if you watch the clip, that being good is not enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrVWYFHg6N8 Edited January 9, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The bands that can get £500 in a pub situation aren't THAT common... most pubs bands just can't do that.. but it really is dependent on their drawing power. One or two function type bands might do that sort of gig... in that £500 is a poor figure for them, but they might need the exposure in the quiet months like Jan and Feb and the pub is a shop window and a chance to showcase. In that sense the gig is a loss leader for them. They may be able to not bother with tickets but get enough through the door where the pub will pay them £500 anyway. I talked to one or two bands who can do this... and they really can't over-expose themselves in pubs as that dilutes who is willing to pay..and they say they want at least 80% of the ticket sales... Once you are in this sort of territory, there are a few venues (350-400 capacity ) who will charge £10 a ticket and the band fee starts at around £750.. depending how strong your pull is. We've found this territory very stressful to sell 350 tickets and tbh, we can get that money from a party easily so the former isn't that attractive to us.. We've also found we'd need a 'support' band to pull in 100 people to lessen the stress of sales, and they'd get £400 for their short slot but there are very few takers for this...?? When you think it is easy for an 'average' band to get £250 from a pub for 90 mins of music and not much of a sell ..the LL figures this is par for his business model of live bands, then the extra work and all that that entails isn't as simple or attractive as it seems..and also bearing in mind that IF you charge tickets...you can't play the Dog and Duck ( every town has one ) within about 4-6 weeks of your ticket date. If you travel to towns within 40 mins of your base, then so might your 'fans' so this 6 week 'ban' effectively rules out pub dates in that period.. so you can't actually be a pub band. We have been 'banned' by a local Brewery of playing that town within 4 weeks of a ticket gig at their venue. This is because some of their pubs complained about loss of trade... and the Brewery and the local pubs are VERY muscailly and business dependent on each other. We don't actually think the complaining pubs had a case for loss of trade...and there may have been another agenda.. but we were told by the venue booker ( Brwery ) that it was conditional part of our gig there. These are the basis of the dynamics around here for some gigs...which is why I said I welcome hearing how your plan to play here will develop. I think you could possibly put 3 dates together over a weekend but making the other dates work in a week would be harder..??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Here is another version... ex name of 'big' band goes out and plays the bigger pubs and they might be looking at £750-1000 for the gig. For that, they will need a big audience who might pay £10 a ticket... and the market for those sort of gigs might be £8-20... but they might be tough figures to take on from a business POV.. You might find the ex name wants £250 himself for the gig so the costs...even if he fills the band with good pub players...are getting to over £500 and then you have to factor in a bit of a show costs ( lights and P.A ). We've been on bills with bands like these.... and they haven't even been the best band on the bill...which makes their fees and business model look a bit dubious... But like all these things...you charge what you can charge and you need to make the numbers work or your band model grinds to a halt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420888704' post='2654552'] ... But like all these things...you charge what you can charge and you need to make the numbers work or your band model grinds to a halt.. [/quote] I'd be surprised if many pub bands were operating a business model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420897193' post='2654714'] I'd be surprised if many pub bands were operating a business model. [/quote] Every successful one does...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420897193' post='2654714'] I'd be surprised if many pub bands were operating a business model. [/quote] I really meant giving the gigs they do a bit of thought.. and to a lot of bands that is quite a business model, around here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 If the pub band is gigging consistently and making money they will need a business strategy and model if they want to continue gigging consistently and making money. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420888340' post='2654542'] The bands that can get £500 in a pub situation aren't THAT common... most pubs bands just can't do that.. but it really is dependent on their drawing power. [/quote] Thanks, that would be my band, were not a functions band. We are a bar band $500.00 for a 4 hour show with lights and sound. That's a bargain. We have been together and gigging for 9 years. We diplomatically turn down those $350.00 and $400.00 gigs. We do not play benefits or charity events for several good reasons. For a corporate agency represented band $500.00 wouldn't come close to covering a contract for lights and sound. Blue No gig tonight, going to see Sena at Shank Hall ( small bar ). Bands support us and come to our shows, I support them and go to their shows. Ever see these guys that complain about poor turn out at their shows but refuse to spend a nickel too see and support other bands? [url="http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/"]http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4[/url] Edited January 11, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420934689' post='2655350'] Thanks, that would be my band, were not a functions band. We are a bar band $500.00 for a 4 hour show with lights and sound. That's a bargain. We have been together and gigging for 9 years. We diplomatically turn down those $350.00 and $400.00 gigs. We do not play benefits or charity events for several good reasons. For a corporate agency represented band $500.00 wouldn't come close to covering a contract for lights and sound. Blue [b]No gig tonight, going to see Sena at Shank Hall ( small bar ). Bands support us and come to our shows, I support them and go to their shows. Ever see these guys that complain about poor turn out at their shows but refuse to spend a nickel too see and support other bands?[/b] [url="http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/"]http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4[/url] [/quote] Yes, that always make me laugh. Bands complaining about poor nights and nobody is interested in their scene but they don't gig much and they still don't support other bands...as far as I can see. I go to quite a few gigs per month and I never ever see some of them... and I've never seen the others check us out either. I'll support my muso mates bands but even so, they might not reciprocate... do they think we are sh**...or do they think we are a bit better than they'd like..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420973091' post='2655555'] Yes, that always make me laugh. Bands complaining about poor nights and nobody is interested in their scene but they don't gig much and they still don't support other bands...as far as I can see. I go to quite a few gigs per month and I never ever see some of them... and I've never seen the others check us out either. I'll support my muso mates bands but even so, they might not reciprocate... do they think we are sh**...or do they think we are a bit better than they'd like..?? [/quote] I go and see local bands. Are you using a music stand? . Edited January 11, 2015 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1421003519' post='2656090'] I go and see local bands. Are you using a music stand? . [/quote] No, no You know I wouldn't for a rock n roll gig These people don't walk out..they stay away. One of them said he would never go and see a band that was better than his... and I think they like to regard themselves as a very good outfit. I'd agree they are one of the most popular ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 What an odd attitude. If a band were awful I may not go seen them again for a while. But you can learn from good and bad bands. I liked to take my old drummer to gigs because he was quite blinkered in his view of how songs could only be played in the original style with the original instrumentation. Quite a few times he had his eyes opened, but he still needs to hear a tune first by all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1421008001' post='2656157'] What an odd attitude. If a band were awful I may not go seen them again for a while. But you can learn from good and bad bands. I liked to take my old drummer to gigs because he was quite blinkered in his view of how songs could only be played in the original style with the original instrumentation. Quite a few times he had his eyes opened, but he still needs to hear a tune first by all accounts. [/quote] This is why I know ( and accept ) players have egos.. You don't have to be a dick about it but I might judge a band the same way as I judge my own particularly if that band/guy were a bit up themselves, but at least I see a lot of outfits so I know who is about and what they are capable of. There is also a sort of hierachy and guys that dep in and out of the top units are more comfortable in their abilty and skill-set, whereas guys who tend to stay with the same band never ever seem able to recognise that the gigging scene doesn't start and end with their local pub circuit.. and why would they...you never see them at any gigs so they are only aware of a very small circle that they inhabit.. I agree, it is odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Back to "How To Be In A Band" for newbies going out and seeing bands would be crucial a necessary part of the education curve. At least for my generation it was. However, for younger bands that don't gig and are not a part of the gigging culture, going out to see bands would not be that important. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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