waynepunkdude Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420660203' post='2651910'] [i]"I always have fun when I'm playing, however I don't play for fun, I play for money"[/i] [/quote] It's a very strange attitude that I think is exclusive to music, I can't think of another hobby that people would be expected to be paid to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1420711813' post='2652331'] ...hobby... [/quote] The cat is among the pigeons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1420670275' post='2652119'] For me whatever band I`m in must be a gigging band............. [/quote] What other sort of band is there..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420713895' post='2652367'] What other sort of band is there..?? [/quote] The type of band that pretend to practice but actually play arcade games Band practice is tonight, I must learn NBA Jam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1420711813' post='2652331'] It's a very strange attitude that I think is exclusive to music, I can't think of another hobby that people would be expected to be paid to do. [/quote] I do get what you're saying. Though if we class it as a "hobby" like riding your bike/skateboarding/fishing etc then there are people at the top of the bike/boarding/fishing game making real money. Then further down the food chain there are semi pro's making a bit as well. I just think there is a much bigger foodchain if you will in music. Robbie Williams plays arena's for god knows how much and I play the Dog and Zombie for fifty quid. And of course there are many levels between. Live music tends to operate as part of a commercial environment and If I'm operating in and as a part of a commercial environment then I expect a share of some sort.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Be honest with yourself about what you want. Be honest with the other members about what you want. Hope they're honest with you. The only sticking point I've ever had with bands is; People who want to tell their friends they're in a band but aren't that fussed about playing in a band. After a couple of months with no gigs in one band I asked the question about gigs and the guitarist said "I just like coming down on Tuesday nights and jamming. It gets me out of the house." Kind of frustrating when you've joined a band and learned their material under the pretext of gigging at least once a month. That's me off then... . Edited January 8, 2015 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 One of the first bands I was in was with older experienced guys who had been gigging regularly, taken some time off and were looking to get into it again. Rehearsed almost weekly for the thick end of a year before I started making noises about getting out and gigging. Eventually the band leader (main guitarist) relented to us doing 1 unpaid gig, told everyone before the gig that he actually didn't want to play live anymore and the band split after that single gig. Bizarre. By that time I'd also been coopted into another fun band and was doing stuff with them anyway so that just became my focus until the next 'serious' one came along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HengistPod Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420674790' post='2652174'] Now there seems to be a population of musicians that could gig but chose to only involve themselves in bed room playing or basement "for fun only" bands. It's a good example of how things change.[/quote] Very true. My son is a fantastic guitar player, but is simply not interested in gigging. He swaps files electronically with his muso mates, and they write stuff together that way, with Pro Tools and other things that confuse me. Their overall aim is well-recorded music which they share on the web. Although much of it is way too technical for me (by Dog, they love strange time signatures and changes), they could easily play it live if they wanted. They just don't want to. Strange thing, the youth of today - as it always has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 My 'rules' for being in a band are fairly uncomplicated. 1) Don't be a dick 2) Practice 3) Turn up on time You're welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1420728067' post='2652668'] My 'rules' for being in a band are fairly uncomplicated. 1) Don't be a dick 2) Practice 3) Turn up on time You're welcome [/quote] That is the simplest and best set of rules for being a musician in my opinion. I am also a firm believer in bands being run as a dictatorship, and that too many opinionated people can ruin a good band. Oddly I am never really the dictator, I give my opinion when it is asked for and I am listened to but often overruled. The band leader in one of my bands owns all of the kit, the rehearsal space, gets us well paid gigs, picks the songs (most of the time) and its a case of, 'do it my way and do it properly of f*@k off' basically. I like it, everyone knows where they stand and if your a knob and don't work hard your gone. Edited January 8, 2015 by NJE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420675303' post='2652179'] I wish folks would qualify this idea. I'll say it again, it takes certain skills and resources to start a gigging band on your own. It's not an option for everyone. Blue [/quote] My long rambling post was trying to do just that. Oops, fail Its so simple though, the only skills you need to start a band are an idea, and persistence. You dont need to play well or at all really, enough electronica and punk acts started out of a desire to make a sound and no real knowledge of music to prove this Getting people to buy into your idea is as simple as engaging the right people, which happens if you take the time to find them, it took me about ten years before I found the first two people who would be the right people for my band, but I did eventually find them. The right people are the ones who want to join your band provided you give them accurate information about what you are about. As for resources, I used anything to hand to try and connect to people who might fit, I met the drummer taking my son to music classes where his son went, and we got talking, I met the guitarist on bandmix, because I liked one of his tracks (as in I clicked like, he found me on facebook as a result of liking what I put up there on bass and seeing that I had liked his track - interesting dynamic), I found the trombonist as I work with him (had done for a couple of years, had no idea he played an instrument - result!), he brought the trumpet player, he wouldnt play unless she did as well, they come as a pair (double result). The gap between the first two getting involved and the second two was over a year, when the horns came we already had a set, it took another 9 months before we grew further. The keys player I found via gumtree. The percussionist saw us at a gig and wanted to play with us, she is by far the most qualified member of the band (MA from the Royal College of Music - that carries plenty of weight with me). The more of a band and a set you have, the easier it is to get good musicians interested though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420715165' post='2652391'] After a couple of months with no gigs in one band I asked the question about gigs and the guitarist said "I just like coming down on Tuesday nights and jamming. It gets me out of the house." Kind of frustrating when you've joined a band and learned their material under the pretext of gigging at least once a month. That's me off then...[/quote] For those looking for gigging bands, here's a tip. "We want to gig once a month" means, this is not a gigging band.That's the way it is over here. Best not to pursue the opportunity. Here's another trick bands use to solicit musicians; "Signed Band Needs Bass Player" IMHO, being signed could mean anything usually it means nothing or the band wants money from you up front. Usually for nothing but their pockets. Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've done well out of bands not out every weekend. It also gives you an opportunity to be in more than one band. My current band tends to play at least once a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420746781' post='2653030'] For those looking for gigging bands, here's a tip. "We want to gig once a month" means, this is not a gigging band.That's the way it is over here. Best not to pursue the opportunity. Here's another trick bands use to solicit musicians; "Signed Band Needs Bass Player" IMHO, being signed could mean anything usually it means nothing or the band wants money from you up front. Usually for nothing but their pockets. Blue Blue [/quote] I wouldn't say this is true over here... Gigging once a month can mean just that... but since they have websites and/or FB..that is easy to quantify..ie, if they are a gigging band. Also, in my area, you'll have heard of the gigging bands or come across them and if you haven't then that puts a question mark over the player. No one says 'signed' anymore... but every band has 'released' a CD...and again, you can file that under various degrees of delusional which can easily be quantified. Basically, an experienced hand will sense and detect BS and you will then just let the enquiry go... More pertinent is 'recommendations' from someone you don't know which is what FB locally is good at as you'll generally find up you are hooked up with the same sort of guys.... so this is a circle you swim in and you/they carry the same sort of 'credentials'. And to make it a tad more topical.... why would you like, befriend a band or a musician you didn't actually know anything about? Edited January 8, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1420732453' post='2652767'] My long rambling post was trying to do just that. Oops, fail Its so simple though, the only skills you need to start a band are an idea, and persistence. You dont need to play well or at all really, enough electronica and punk acts started out of a desire to make a sound and no real knowledge of music to prove this Getting people to buy into your idea is as simple as engaging the right people, which happens if you take the time to find them, it took me about ten years before I found the first two people who would be the right people for my band, but I did eventually find them. The right people are the ones who want to join your band provided you give them accurate information about what you are about. As for resources, I used anything to hand to try and connect to people who might fit, I met the drummer taking my son to music classes where his son went, and we got talking, I met the guitarist on bandmix, because I liked one of his tracks (as in I clicked like, he found me on facebook as a result of liking what I put up there on bass and seeing that I had liked his track - interesting dynamic), I found the trombonist as I work with him (had done for a couple of years, had no idea he played an instrument - result!), he brought the trumpet player, he wouldnt play unless she did as well, they come as a pair (double result). The gap between the first two getting involved and the second two was over a year, when the horns came we already had a set, it took another 9 months before we grew further. The keys player I found via gumtree. The percussionist saw us at a gig and wanted to play with us, she is by far the most qualified member of the band (MA from the Royal College of Music - that carries plenty of weight with me). The more of a band and a set you have, the easier it is to get good musicians interested though. [/quote] Then it was an option for you, not everyone. In the real world, starting a band is also a "start up" band. Over here start up bands have nothing to offer, hence your not going to attract musicians that are band ready. Me personally, I wouldn't take 10 years to find 2 people or 50 people for that matter. My point, I'm an example of the guy that starting my own band would not be an option for a myriad of reasons. at the top of the list would be, not being able to pay anyone. Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420747412' post='2653040'] I've done well out of bands not out every weekend. It also gives you an opportunity to be in more than one band. My current band tends to play at least once a month. [/quote] Many of us are [i]"one band"[/i] guys and no interest in playing in multiple band. [i]"One Band, The Right Band"[/i] Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420747486' post='2653044'] I wouldn't say this is true over here... Gigging once a month can mean just that... but since they have websites and/or FB..that is easy to quantify..ie, if they are a gigging band. Also, in my area, you'll have heard of the gigging bands or come across them and if you haven't then that puts a question mark over the player. No one says 'signed' anymore... but every band has 'released' a CD...and again, you can file that under various degrees of delusional which can easily be quantified. Basically, an experienced hand will sense and detect BS and you will then just let the enquiry go... More pertinent is 'recommendations' from someone you don't know which is what FB locally is good at as you'll generally find up you are hooked up with the same sort of guys.... so this is a circle you swim in and you/they carry the same sort of 'credentials'. And to make it a tad more topical.... why would you like, befriend a band or a musician you didn't actually know anything about? [/quote] Then it's a regional thing. Over here "we want to gig once a month" is usually a [i]"start up"[/i] with no track record to check or a band with no way of tracking their gig record either. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='NJE' timestamp='1420732016' post='2652757'] The band leader in one of my bands owns all of the kit, the rehearsal space, gets us well paid gigs, picks the songs (most of the time) and its a case of, 'do it my way and do it properly of f*@k off' basically. I like it, everyone knows where they stand and if your a knob and don't work hard your gone. [/quote] If he's getting everyone paid, then what he say's goes. I totally agree. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='HengistPod' timestamp='1420727337' post='2652652'] Very true. My son is a fantastic guitar player, but is simply not interested in gigging. He swaps files electronically with his muso mates, and they write stuff together that way, with Pro Tools and other things that confuse me. Their overall aim is well-recorded music which they share on the web. Although much of it is way too technical for me (by Dog, they love strange time signatures and changes), they could easily play it live if they wanted. They just don't want to. Strange thing, the youth of today - as it always has been. [/quote] Yeah, it's different for young people. There was a young guy at work that was telling me about his band everyday and the recordings they were making. I asked when they were gigging or playing out. I am not joking, he didn't understand what I was talking about. Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420747866' post='2653050'] ................ In the real world, starting a band is also a "start up" band. Over here start up bands have nothing to offer, hence your not going to attract musicians that are band ready. Me personally, I wouldn't take 10 years to find 2 people or 50 people for that matter. My point, I'm an example of the guy that starting my own band would not be an option for a myriad of reasons. at the top of the list would be, not being able to pay anyone. Blue [/quote] I have a start-up band from scratch and I have gigs in the book for March. I accept I wont hit those dates but May is realistic IF I get my finger out. I find that any new enquiry to a muso requires credibility and conviction and I feel I'll have both. Of course, they need to be prepared to put the time in and that is what the 'sell' is really for... so I have to convince them that my project is a better prospect than an established band. A fresh new exciting band rather than a tired old unit that still will need a few rehearsals to get someone up to speed.... I guess I need to convince the people I go after, that this is not a waste of time.. I think that is the most important thing... For example, there is not a band around here..that I can recall off the top of my head, that I would want to join...so in that sense, if others feel the same way, then my offer might be a very good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1420716394' post='2652421'] One of the first bands I was in was with older experienced guys who had been gigging regularly, taken some time off and were looking to get into it again. Rehearsed almost weekly for the thick end of a year before I started making noises about getting out and gigging. Eventually the band leader (main guitarist) relented to us doing 1 unpaid gig, told everyone before the gig that he actually didn't want to play live anymore and the band split after that single gig. Bizarre. By that time I'd also been coopted into another fun band and was doing stuff with them anyway so that just became my focus until the next 'serious' one came along. [/quote] If you want to gig and make a little cash, in general stay away from [i]"start ups"[/i] and [i]"originals"[/i] bands ( a band getting back [i]"into it" [/i]is a start up ). I never audition for a band that doesn't disclose their gigging schedule past and present on their web site. Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1420749472' post='2653077'] I have a start-up band from scratch and I have gigs in the book for March. I accept I wont hit those dates but May is realistic IF I get my finger out. I find that any new enquiry to a muso requires credibility and conviction and I feel I'll have both. Of course, they need to be prepared to put the time in and that is what the 'sell' is really for... so I have to convince them that my project is a better prospect than an established band. A fresh new exciting band rather than a tired old unit that still will need a few rehearsals to get someone up to speed.... I guess I need to convince the people I go after, that this is not a waste of time.. I think that is the most important thing... For example, there is not a band around here..that I can recall off the top of my head, that I would want to join...so in that sense, if others feel the same way, then my offer might be a very good one. [/quote] Then your one of the guys that can form your own band. No argument from me. However, you would never be able to convince me to join a start up. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1420711813' post='2652331'] It's a very strange attitude that I think is exclusive to music, I can't think of another hobby that people would be expected to be paid to do. [/quote] Well, it's not a traditional hobby.It's B2B ( Business to Business ) What other hobby's are there where your providing a commercial service for another business for 4 hours? Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1420747978' post='2653052'] Many of us are [i]"one band"[/i] guys and no interest in playing in multiple band. [i]"One Band, The Right Band"[/i] Blue [/quote] How often do you change bands then? Are you content with only one vehicle for your musical outlet? I'd feel very claustrophobic limiting myself to playing with the same people all the time. I played in one band for fifteen years, while playing in other side projects along the way. I don't think I could or should have left that band because I wanted to play in another band short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420754109' post='2653171'] How often do you change bands then? Are you content with only one vehicle for your musical outlet? I'd feel very claustrophobic limiting myself to playing with the same people all the time. I played in one band for fifteen years, while playing in other side projects along the way. I don't think I could or should have left that band because I wanted to play in another band short term. [/quote] You know, after 50 years of doing this, words like limiting, creativity rarely come into my mind. I'm always expanding and being creative I can do that even while playing with the same people. While it's only 4 strings and 22 frets there will always be new stuff to learn. It's Rock & Roll it's fun it will always be fun.It could never be limiting for me. I have not changed bands in over 3 years and have no interests in side projects ( keep in mind everybody has a price tag, me included ) I'm lucky to be in a band with consistent good paying gigs. If something were to happen with this band, i would be out there looking for years. It's the way the Milwaukee bar band business is. Blue Edited January 8, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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