Holes in kick drums

[mcnach]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420715871' post='2652409']
That's even worse. Someone is borrowing his kit and then telling him how to set it up?

It's like borrowing someone's cab and complaining it's not punchy enough.

Some people need to grow up.
[/quote]


It's the sound guy, apparently, who has an issue. Or the promoter. NOt the other bands. This is a multiband thing, but the reason these bands will play together is we all know eachother (in fact, several members are in more than one of these bands), it's not your typical multiband bill.

Band 1 is just a guitarist with loops and effects and a singer.
Band 2 is singer/guitarist from band 4 (mine), bassist from band 3, and another guy.
Band 3 is providing the drum kit, graciously, as band 4's drummer will only make it in time for the gig, being away at another gig previously.
Band 4, mine, provides bass rig and two guitar amps, I believe (or maybe three?)

It's all a friendly arrangement. No band member is complaining about any of the equipment.

Edited January 8, 2015 by mcnach

[Dad3353]

I'd just add that the hole in the head of a bass drum is not just cut in a circle. It's a port, and its position and diameter affect the sound just a s much as the port on a bass cab. It can't be improvised on stage with a cutter. The 'taking off the head' approach, too, is so radical as to be excluded except, maybe, for a '60s tribute band, imitating the 'concert tom' groups of that era. Changing the head for a ported one would be the best solution, but bleed should not be that much of a problem micing a full head drum. I've done quite a fair few stages, and not once had to compromise in any way, even when my built-in mic was not solicited. Micing from the batter head is not that complicated, either. Micing both would be ideal, but could cause fuss.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Dad3353

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1420732696' post='2652774']
I'd just add that the hole in the head of a bass drum is not just cut in a circle. It's a port, and its position and diameter affect the sound just a s much as the port on a bass cab. It can't be improvised on stage with a cutter.
The 'taking off the head' approach, too, is so radical as to be excluded except, maybe, for a '60s tribute band, imitating the 'concert tom' groups of that era.[/quote]

Both of these thoughts occurred to me too, all that's missing in the second one is the grimey striped old pillow sat inside the open fronted drum.

Course you could always take a Stanley knife to the skin like this guy maybe did - or given who it is he may have just kicked a hole in it by accident.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-1M8CgdXE4[/media]

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1420732696' post='2652774']
I'd just add that the hole in the head of a bass drum is not just cut in a circle. It's a port, and its position and diameter affect the sound just a s much as the port on a bass cab. It can't be improvised on stage with a cutter. The 'taking off the head' approach, too, is so radical as to be excluded except, maybe, for a '60s tribute band, imitating the 'concert tom' groups of that era. Changing the head for a ported one would be the best solution, but bleed should not be that much of a problem micing a full head drum. I've done quite a fair few stages, and not once had to compromise in any way, even when my built-in mic was not solicited. Micing from the batter head is not that complicated, either. Micing both would be ideal, but could cause fuss.
[/quote]


Thank you!

Hmmm, would you like to visit Edinburgh this weekend?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1420739794' post='2652886']
Thank you!

Hmmm, would you like to visit Edinburgh this weekend?
[/quote]

Yes, I would [size=4] [/size][size=4], but I doubt that the logistics of such a venture would allow it..! [/size]

Edited January 8, 2015 by Dad3353

[TimR]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1420731003' post='2652731']



It's the sound guy, apparently, who has an issue. Or the promoter. NOt the other bands.

...

It's all a friendly arrangement. No band member is complaining about any of the equipment.
[/quote]

No. I understand that. The fact remains that it's the organisers who have a problem with the kit that they're getting the benefit of (indirectly) that are complaining about the kit.

Maybe they should hire a drum kit in that meets with their requirements.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1420745026' post='2653001']
Yes, I would [size=4], but I doubt that the logistics of such a venture would allow it..! [/size]
[/quote]

pah! details!

[mcnach]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420745548' post='2653011']
No. I understand that. The fact remains that it's the organisers who have a problem with the kit that they're getting the benefit of (indirectly) that are complaining about the kit.

Maybe they should hire a drum kit in that meets with their requirements.
[/quote]


Oh, ok, yeah, I agree entirely about that!

I'm going to use my red cabs tomorrow. I hope they like the colour

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1420816075' post='2653824']
Oh, ok, yeah, I agree entirely about that!

I'm going to use my red cabs tomorrow. I hope they like the colour
[/quote]

See, this is why we should use Hamish's kit. Red cabs with black grilles, next to black drums with a red pinstripe. It'll look good!

[TimR]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1420816075' post='2653824']



Oh, ok, yeah, I agree entirely about that!

I'm going to use my red cabs tomorrow. I hope they like the colour
[/quote]

Hope you all enjoy it whatever the outcome. I suspect the sound guy will just grumble a bit and mic the batter side. If it's the same kit all night he only has to do it once anyway...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1420816705' post='2653840']
See, this is why we should use Hamish's kit. Red cabs with black grilles, next to black drums with a red pinstripe. It'll look good!
[/quote]

It's true!!!

Tell him to bring it, if they complain, blame me... I am a diva and I'll be wearing black and red, I cannot play if the drums don't match my outfit

[Beer of the Bass]

Well, we brought the kit, used it as-is without the hole and it was fine. The sound guy suggested taking the skin off, but he wasn't going to push the point. He miced it from the front and the FOH sound was perhaps a little less immediate and punchy than with a mic inside, but the mix was fine and it didn't seem to deter anyone from dancing. After that, I really don't get why the promoter was so adamant about it before the gig.
Because we were sharing gear, I was obliged to stay around after my band had played, drink a couple of beers and dance to McNach's band. There are worse ways to spend a chilly Saturday night in January!

[TimR]

Excellent. Glad it all turned out ok.

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1420985011' post='2655785']
Well, we brought the kit, used it as-is without the hole and it was fine. The sound guy suggested taking the skin off, but he wasn't going to push the point. He miced it from the front and the FOH sound was perhaps a little less immediate and punchy than with a mic inside, but the mix was fine and it didn't seem to deter anyone from dancing. After that, I really don't get why the promoter was so adamant about it before the gig.
Because we were sharing gear, I was obliged to stay around after my band had played, drink a couple of beers and dance to McNach's band. There are worse ways to spend a chilly Saturday night in January!
[/quote]


i informed you thusly

some people stick to what they know and anything out of the norm is completely unacceptable

but seriously, glad the gig went off without a hitch and all worked out okay

chris

[mrtcat]

Quote MoonBassAlpha

That's Oxford for you. The most disappointingly clique'y and dull music scene for a city with plenty of arts culture. Lived there most my life and hardly ever gig there. Surrounding towns like Abingdon, Wantage, Bicester, Didcot, Witney, Banbury and beyond all have far better venues and crowds.

Edited January 11, 2015 by mrtcat

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1421001409' post='2656050']
Quote MoonBassAlpha

That's Oxford for you. The most disappointingly clique'y and dull music scene for a city with plenty of arts culture. Lived there most my life and hardly ever gig there. Surrounding towns like Abingdon, Wantage, Bicester, Didcot, Witney, Banbury and beyond all have far better venues and crowds.
[/quote]


aren't these guys in Edinburgh?

[mrtcat]

Chrismanbass I was referring to a post from MoonBass Alpha about The Cellar in Oxford. For some reason I can't get the quote function to work.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1420985011' post='2655785']
Well, we brought the kit, used it as-is without the hole and it was fine. The sound guy suggested taking the skin off, but he wasn't going to push the point. He miced it from the front and the FOH sound was perhaps a little less immediate and punchy than with a mic inside, but the mix was fine and it didn't seem to deter anyone from dancing. After that, I really don't get why the promoter was so adamant about it before the gig.
Because we were sharing gear, I was obliged to stay around after my band had played, drink a couple of beers and dance to McNach's band. There are worse ways to spend a chilly Saturday night in January!
[/quote]

It was pretty good in the end, wasn't it? Good attendance, and very participative. I think it's the first time I see NUF from an audience perspective since my departure, and it sounded really good!

The sound onstage was awful, I thought. How did you find it? It was way too loud, but not so much from the amps onstage, it just seemed to me the monitors were very loud, lots of vocals where I was, barely any rhythm guitar (who was next to me so I could hear his amp a bit) and lots of brass...
I couldn't hear myself very well, which is ridiculous since I was right next to my amp, but there was just too much going on onstage. The sound guy already asked me to not turn up as he was having trouble with bassiness I suppose, and it was a situation where adding more noise was not going to help much anyway... So from that point of view, it wasn't as enjoyable, but watching people getting so much into the music compensates for it Out in the front it sounded good enough, so I was happy in the end. We had a blast.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1421070774' post='2656764']
The sound guy already asked me to not turn up as he was having trouble with bassiness I suppose, and it was a situation where adding more noise was not going to help much anyway...
[/quote]

Something tells me this stage suffers regularly from resonance or similar making the sound an issue - which is probably why the sound guy, and therefore his promoter, try and pre-empt this before gigs by asking drummers to either cut a hole or remove the skin. The promoter is probably more "definitely has to happen" about it, because he may not understand the technicaliities so much - he is in effect passing on the sound guy's rules.

I note that BeerOfTheBass said the sound guy suggested removing the skin but then didn't push it. This is what I was trying to say in earlier posts. As a lone sound guy, it's often you against a group of matey band members, so you often have to be quite blunt to get your point across. They were probably starting with the "cut a hole" line to lay down the law and make you think about it - but on the night, he's probably thinking "Well, I've said my bit, if they don't listen and it sound s**t, I can always say I told them so."

I'm only going by past bitter experience as a former FOH/monitors guy in venues with poor acoustics when voicing my opinions. Yes, if the acoustics are good and the stage volume is lower, then you probably can get a good sound micing up from in front of the front skin. However, when you've got a drummer who wants a huge drum fill on stage with loads of kick going through it, it's not always so easy!

Glad your gig went well in the end. As a bassist and drummer, I should probably be on the side of not touching the gear, but as a former engineer, I can't help but defend the men (and women) in black!