Twincam Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Im pretty good at setups and basic work on guitar and bass. I can do electronic work and am very good at soldering. A friend of mine would basically give me the money to set myself up and money for further learning. My friend is an eccentric rich man who was over the moon i replaced a key on his piano and tuned it,for less money than a normal tuning he always folked out for. Ive done set ups and minor fret work for friends and i think im sh*t hot to be honest!. So my friend has offered to pay for me to set myself up in business, but i need to learn more (so i need to know where to go to learn), and i dont know what insurance i might need. Money is not a worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The Luthiers I know started with furniture building courses. I guess that's a good place to start learning about woodworking joints and that. I don't know if there are specific instrument building courses about, but think your local FE college should be a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Doesn't Shuker also run a 'build a bass' course? Not sure how comprehensive it is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 A friend of a friend runs his own guitar building course (he trained at Leeds College of Music) in the Greater Manchester area http://www.guitarbassbuild.co.uk/ but that might not be convenient for you to attend. Other luthiers will undoubtedly offer similar, just a case of finding them nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='ead' timestamp='1420792193' post='2653373'] Doesn't Shuker also run a 'build a bass' course? Not sure how comprehensive it is though. [/quote] This would be a great place to start. I think Jon runs a 3-day build-your-own-bass course which would not only give you a better idea of your abilities but also give you the chance to ask Jon's opinion. Which, I suspect, is worth having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Mike Enns was a film director for Disney until he decided to throw it all in an start his own guitar building business. You might find his videos worth looking at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqH2gFufx8Y You could also take a look at his web site and, maybe his full film. http://restrung.tv/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1420793097' post='2653386'] This would be a great place to start. I think Jon runs a 3-day build-your-own-bass course which would not only give you a better idea of your abilities but also give you the chance to ask Jon's opinion. [/quote] Last course I did with him, he said he won't be running them in 2015. Too much build work of his own to do. Jon won't provide a qualification either. As has been suggested, a furniture course is the starting point if a specialist instrument course such as offered by the London metropolitan university aren't available. http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate-courses/ Martin Petersen did this course btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I suspect the furniture making references are to the Musical Instrument course at the London College of Furniture Making, which has been one of the two main places to go to get a degree in this subject for about the last 40 years at least. http://www.thecass.com/courses/undergraduate/bsc-hons-musical-instruments The other place being the Newark school of violin making, which tends to concentrate on violins, woodwind and piano tuning. A friend of mine was a student there. My web search also threw up South Thames http://www.south-thames.ac.uk/courses/musical-instrument-making-and-repair.html If you don't want a 3 year course you can probably find some places offering a diploma so at least you have some kind of qualification that you can reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scojack Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I would advise putting together a business plan before even thinking about spending a penny on courses (or anything else for that matter). You will have machinery / tools to buy, premises to rent etc, then work out how much it costs to build an instrument and the amount of time it takes, see how many you have to make (and sell ) to give yourself a decent wage, then decide if the amount of expense and time is actually worth it. Good Luck ! Edited January 9, 2015 by scojack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I looked into this and got some way along the road, building 3 Basses myself and working on loads of guitars and basses for another. I started with Jon Shukers 5 day Bass build course ( turned out to be 6) and built my own Bass. Cost me over £1500 You don't have enough time on it other than to scratch the surface of the techniques. I then, having retired, offered a local luthier my time for a day a week as his [s]flunky[/s]intern he graciously accepted and I spent 3 year with him, working on his guitars and basses and using his equipment to work on mine too. He built more guitars than basses so I learnt all the techniques to make a guitar body, bending the wood with steam around a jig, how to get the different shape on the top and back, how to bind, glue etc etc. Equally made up to 70% of many of the Basses he did including some 1 off custom celebrity ones. I fretted these, sprayed some etc etc. Lots of hand sanding as well! In terms of classes, this guy went to I think Newham College in London then spent 6 months out in the US at a US Builders School (Roberto Venn) where he learned a great deal more. In order to make any money at it you need to start with loads of money, and you'll end up with a little...! You end up working for less than the minimum wage and need to invest heavily in equipment- table sanders, planers, pillar drills, dust extraction, Routers ,Table saws,hand tools and the cheap stuff from Screwfix is no good. Add in a good supply of woods which you will need to store. Oh and a spray booth with guns and all the extraction too! The there's all the jigs required, Stewmac sell all that but the prices from the US are pretty steep and you can spend £1000's on all their gear Crimson Guitars do a course down here in Dorset where you work as an apprentice for a couple of years, don't know the finances but Ben Crowe is the Boss there: wwwcrimsonguitars.com All this for a £40 set up and then the guy brings it back cos its "too low", "too high", there's "fret buzz"etc etc! Go for it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1420797532' post='2653441'] The other place being the Newark school of violin making, which tends to concentrate on violins, woodwind and piano tuning. A friend of mine was a student there. [/quote] The violin school at Newark is world renowned - lots of international students. Newark College has both a cabinet making course (I used to lecture there) and a guitar making course. The woodwind course is at Newark College too, which is separate from the Violin School. The guitar course maked exclusively acoustic instruments, and an entirely different skill set to Cabinet Making. If you wanted to make electric instruments, you will learn basic woodworking skills on. Cabinet making course such as routing and shaping, but will also spend two years learning jointing etc which won't be relevant. If money is no object, volunteer to help a reputable maker of electric basses for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael J Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1420799799' post='2653478']... need to invest heavily in equipment- table sanders, planers, pillar drills, dust extraction, Routers ,Table saws,hand tools ... and a spray booth with guns and all the extraction too! [/quote] Stradivarius had loads of that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='Michael J' timestamp='1420800942' post='2653500'] Stradivarius had loads of that stuff. [/quote] I'm sure you get my point: to avoid all the ball -breaking hand prep stuff plus all the regulations, you need to invest in machinery. I spent a full day hand sanding on my Shuker Course, it taught me a lesson around how perfect you need to get a surface before priming and spraying. He could have thrown me a palm sander but what would I have learned using that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1420803705' post='2653562'] He could have thrown me a palm sander but what would I have learned using that? [/quote] How quickly you can f*** up a decent carved top. *cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 That you need to buy a palm sander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [quote name='Michael J' timestamp='1420800942' post='2653500'] Stradivarius had loads of that stuff. [/quote] You can build exclusively by hand. I made two solid electric instruments this way, but it was hard, tedious work and took ages. The fit and finish were OK but not up to the standard I could have achieved with even the most rudimentary of power tools. It took the best part of a year to make each instrument working about 10-15 hours each week. IMO that method is fine and if you have the skills and the patience you could build something that is exceptional, but it won't be quick or easy enough to make a living from. Fine if you want to build a few instruments for yourself and maybe the occasional one for a friend, but I wouldn't want to contemplate making a living out of building instruments at that kind of work rate. Tools have moved on since Stradivarius' day, and any you'd be a fool to turn down the advantages that power tools bring if you can afford to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The more I read in this thread (and other similar ones) the more I think that Luthiers should be sainted. Or sectioned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Is the OP going to be sticking simply to repairs as he has been doing up to now, or does he intend to build his own instruments as well? If so just solid electric or also acoustic? And while it appears to be possible to make money by turning out custom versions of well-know designs does the world need another builder of these instruments? On the other hand coming up with your own design means spending time on design, R&D, building prototypes etc before you even get to the point where you have an instrument that you can sell. I'm not knocking it. Given the skill and resources, if I could come up with some designs that I knew would appeal to a large enough number of players, I'd love to be building my own instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Plus I suspect a Stradivarius was made in a "workshop" rather than by one person from start to finish. Just re the point above, he did say "Luthier" which is more than doing setups. Edited January 9, 2015 by yorks5stringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Contact the BBC for an audition, but this bloke has the job at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 John Birch spent many years just doing repairs, building pickups (awesome pickups btw) & customising Gibsons, until Tony Iommi asked him to build his first 24 fret SG. He liked it so much he financed JB into setting up as a builder [i](parallels with the OP there!)[/i]. To do so JB recruited 3 or 4 guys to work with, one of whom was JayDee. JB was a very volatile employer/colleague by many accounts & his door should have been a revolving one - but he did need a crew around him, he couldn't do it all on his own. IMHO it's no coincidence that when JayDee went solo JB's product profile nose-dived. John Birch were at theri peak in the mid/late 70's, less than 10 years after Iommi financed the set up. JayDee's first guitar under his own flag was Iommi's "Old Boy" SG which looks that way because it was a rush-job which got fried in the heat of (IIRC) a Brazilian tour. Best looking custom guitar I ever saw was built by Joe Wolf, who was guitar-tech at Sound Control, Edinburgh in the 90s. He left to live on a Scottish island, but he built the most gorgeous quilted top, stained all black, Strat I ever saw. His place was taken by Rod Vaughan, a mostly acoustic luthier who was apprenticed at John Birch when JayDee was there. Long story short for the OP, don't expect to make a living doing solely building, few do. In the meantime consider offering your services to as many local guitar shops as will take you & work up from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Im not a luthier, but as a apprenticed served joiner and a life long bass player, I think it is fair to say you could separate the woodworking skills, from the set ups and electronic work which seems to be where you already have some skill. Perhaps you could hone your set up and electronic skills and start offering this kind of service, whilst you are looking into learning the wood skills (which don't come over night) Good luck, if I knew a local guy just starting out who could set up and maintain my basses, Id consider it, I can do it, but I rush it as Ive never got the time Edited January 9, 2015 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Something that's not been mentioned yet is to get yourself on a Business Skills course. Being able to repair or make guitars is one thing, turning that into, and maintaining it as, a viable business is something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK Jale Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Money no object??? Wow. Lucky hombre. Much good advice above. First, buy some good books... Then go on a residential guitar building course, maybe like this one (South Ayrshire)... [url="https://shop.baileyguitars.co.uk/52-build-your-own-first-guitar"]https://shop.baileyg...wn-first-guitar[/url] Then do one all by yourself, but use proper plans at first, maybe follow the Kinkade acoustic book... [url="http://www.kinkadeguitars.co.uk/the-book"]http://www.kinkadegu....co.uk/the-book[/url] Long road ahead... but great fun... I'm ex-Newark School of Violin Making and was then apprenticed to a fine guitar builder for a year or so... and to touch momentarily on the finances, I worked pretty much entirely for free during that time and consider it to have been a very fair deal Good luck! Edited January 9, 2015 by KK Jale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Some good advice here. I think im going to stick with doing small repairs for now and possibly see if there is someone local(ish) who does builds i could volunteer my time too. Also yes a business course would be good to. But also ive decided against getting any money from my friend. As it doesn't seem right. I would certainly love to do small scale builds and i love working on guitars and basses. But i think i probably have to work on some other life priorities first. Before starting my own business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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