String Height

[Reggaebass]

For me it’s not about the tone, I find it much less effort fretting my basses compared with my friends jazz which is about 3.5mm at the 12th ,it’s just hard work, and I can’t hear any difference in the tone between them.

[4000]

21 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

I am unsure why you would want to achieve a really low action, it does not improve your tone in any way. Don’t take my word for it, but Patitucci, Gwizdala and a host of others have all realised that really low action does not equate to better tone.

I totally did not buy into that initially and was all about low action, but after trying it I was amazed at how much more punch and tone you get when you raise that action. Currently I am at 3mm at 12th fret, which is a happy medium between playability and tone.

What is "better" tone? Obviously that works for them, but not everyone is the same. You could just as easily argue that Entwistle and Flea prefer very low action. Plus, it depends what tone you like. I like some buzz because I like a really gritty tone and I play very lightly so low action helps achieve that. I'm more from the Entwistle /Squire school of tone. I suspect Patitucci is after a different tone to me; plus, he plays upright too, so I imagine he's far more used to high action.

[Stub Mandrel]

On 10/01/2015 at 18:11, Twincam said:

Carol Kaye used a high setup and used to recommend 4mm from fret board to string. So just over 3mm or depending on your fret height.

1/4" originally...!

[ped]

If I play anything with an action more than 0.00001mm and basically zero relief I feel like my hands are numb and find it impossible!

[HazBeen]

22 minutes ago, ped said:

If I play anything with an action more than 0.00001mm and basically zero relief I feel like my hands are numb and find it impossible!

You’re a sensitive soul

[ped]

25 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

You’re a sensitive soul

And I’m lazy! I hate it when I go into shops and can’t play anything. I think most basses I’ve had I’ve ended up having to file down the G saddle because they won’t go low enough 😂

[4000]

3 hours ago, ped said:

And I’m lazy! I hate it when I go into shops and can’t play anything. I think most basses I’ve had I’ve ended up having to file down the G saddle because they won’t go low enough 😂

I have a similar problem in shops. I recently played an Epi TBird in PMT. You could have driven a bus under the strings. 
I remember the first time I went to the Bass Gallery (then just The Gallery) back in ‘96. They didn’t have anything like the stock they have now - the shop was much smaller for a start - but I could play everything! It was bliss!

[Ian Hinrichsen]

I've never even seen a bass with such low action at the 12th fret - 1 - 1, 5mm?

I doubt this could be achieved on a 5 string B? 

[Ian Hinrichsen]

22 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

If I played hard I probably would , but I only use flats and have a light touch so it’s minimal string noise ,and so much easier for me to play than a high action 🙂

Ok. If i double time on the B i have to be VERY careful or it clatters and i hate that. I would love to have an action like yours, but Im learning as i go along, but yours is enviable its so low. Must be great to play. 

I suppose i could file the offending frets down a little and that would help. I've also thought about raising the nut height, so i can take the neck lower via the truss rod. Coz if i lower it too much, the strings are too close to the fretboard  around the 1st to 3rd fret, and it buzzes a bit. 

[Reggaebass]

25 minutes ago, Ian Hinrichsen said:

I've never even seen a bass with such low action at the 12th fret - 1 - 1, 5mm?

I doubt this could be achieved on a 5 string B? 

Hi Ian, I’ll post a few pics later when I get home, you can’t really see on this one, but when I had this made I asked holger at Sandberg for a low action, it came at 1.25 mm with no buzz 

[ped]

Here's my G string (not the first time I've said that online)

[Woodwind]

21 hours ago, HazBeen said:

I am unsure why you would want to achieve a really low action, it does not improve your tone in any way. Don’t take my word for it, but Patitucci, Gwizdala and a host of others have all realised that really low action does not equate to better tone.

I play with a low action and lighter strings as a way to take stress off old tendon injuries. I also use a very light touch.

Considerations of tone were secondary.

 Over the weekend I was rehearsing with some woodwind players in a cold room so tuning was coming in under 440.

As I loosened my strings the truss rod pulled the neck even flatter so I would guess my E string was down to just over 1mm. I usually play with a tad over 1.5mm at the 12th "fret" - This is on a fretless.

I was able to play by lightening my touch even more and turning the amp up. I wouldn't want it like that the whole time, but it was fine for this rehearsal.

[Woodwind]

5 minutes ago, Woodwind said:

I play with a low action and lighter strings as a way to take stress off old tendon injuries. I also use a very light touch.

Considerations of tone were secondary.

 Over the weekend I was rehearsing with some woodwind players in a cold room so tuning was coming in under 440.

As I loosened my strings the truss rod pulled the neck even flatter so I would guess my E string was down to just over 1mm. I usually play with a tad over 1.5mm at the 12th "fret" - This is on a fretless.

I was able to play by lightening my touch even more and turning the amp up. I wouldn't want it like that the whole time, but it was fine for this rehearsal.

Just measured my set up (haven't done that for a while) at regular 440 tuning and my normal relief.

I've been over estimating how high my action is!!

Just under 1mm in the G and about 1.25mm on the E.

So I dread to think how low it went on Saturday in the cold room.

[Stub Mandrel]

There's no universal 'right' for a setup, it's mostly dependant on an individual's playing style and choice of strings, but with some variation according to other factors - for example if you fret hard (especially with 'jumbo frets') you will tend to lift the strings a little just past the fret reducing buzz at low actions (try it!)

[4000]

9 hours ago, Woodwind said:

I play with a low action and lighter strings as a way to take stress off old tendon injuries. I also use a very light touch.

Considerations of tone were secondary.

 Over the weekend I was rehearsing with some woodwind players in a cold room so tuning was coming in under 440.

As I loosened my strings the truss rod pulled the neck even flatter so I would guess my E string was down to just over 1mm. I usually play with a tad over 1.5mm at the 12th "fret" - This is on a fretless.

I was able to play by lightening my touch even more and turning the amp up. I wouldn't want it like that the whole time, but it was fine for this rehearsal.

It’s not the original reason for my low action preference, but I suffer with hypermobile joints and sometimes fingers and or wrists can sublux when I play, so I try and avoid anything too strenuous. 

[Woodwind]

11 minutes ago, 4000 said:

It’s not the original reason for my low action preference, but I suffer with hypermobile joints and sometimes fingers and or wrists can sublux when I play, so I try and avoid anything too strenuous. 

I can absolutely understand!

[CamdenRob]

On 02/03/2020 at 11:42, ped said:

Here's my G string (not the first time I've said that online)

My technique is way too agricultural to play that... id get more clank and buzz than note 😕

Others talking about low action, is this how low all you guys have it?

I recon mine must be at least twice that and I still have to force myself to play with lighter touch to not get a metallic tap at the start of every note... 

Edited March 3, 2020 by CamdenRob

[Stub Mandrel]

22 hours ago, ped said:

Here's my G string (not the first time I've said that online)

Crikey Ped, when did you last change those strings? Hourglass wear at the 20h fret?!

[ped]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Crikey Ped, when did you last change those strings? Hourglass wear at the 20h fret?!

They're probably nearly two years old, maybe more. They're Elixirs - they still sound new. Honestly I'll end up wearing them out before they die of natural causes.

[4000]

8 hours ago, CamdenRob said:

My technique is way to agricultural to play that... id get more clank and buzz than note 😕

Others talking about low action, is this how low all you guys have it?

I recon mine must be at least twice that and I still have to force myself to play with lighter touch to not get a metallic tap at the start of every note... 

Yeah, that’s pretty much how I like my G string, metallic and low slung. 😉

Being serious, I reckon I’d get on very well with Ped’s setup. 

[PaulWarning]

On 02/03/2020 at 11:42, ped said:

Here's my G string (not the first time I've said that online)

may be talking out of my backside but judging by the string and fret wear there must be a fair degree of string/fret interaction which surely must affect the tone.

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by PaulWarning

[BigRedX]

5 hours ago, ped said:

They're probably nearly two years old, maybe more. They're Elixirs - they still sound new. Honestly I'll end up wearing them out before they die of natural causes.

But is the intonation still right?

I once had a set of string with similar wear that were impossible to intonate because the wear meant that the strings were not of an even unit mass along their length.

[ped]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

But is the intonation still right?

I once had a set of string with similar wear that were impossible to intonate because the wear meant that the strings were not of an even unit mass along their length.

Yeah bang on - tbh I think if you magnify a G string up this much you'd be surprised how they look at the frets.

[nilebodgers]

1 minute ago, PaulWarning said:

may be talking out of my backside but judging by the string and fret wear there must be a fair degree of o string/fret interaction which surely must affect the tone

That is the classic "whacked by a roundwound" look. A lot of my frets look like that

[ped]

16 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

may be talking out of my backside but judging by the string and fret wear there must be a fair degree of string/fret interaction which surely must affect the tone.

 

As little or as much as I like - certainly no unwanted buzz or snagging. Tone wise I love a bit of clank/zing behind the notes when I want it. I haven't got many recent recordings but the setup of this bass hasn't changed in over ten years so you can hear my sound here. 99% sure this was using the strings in the pic above, too.