String Height

[Ian Hinrichsen]

On 08/03/2020 at 23:37, gjones said:

I own some basses that have been set up by professionals and the action is very low. I also own some that have been set up by me and are therefore not so low.

I like playing the ones with a low action, because there's a tiny bit less effort necessary to play them but I don't feel there's a huge difference in tone.

I know some pro bassists that have great tone and their basses have an action like a longbow.

Don't you find that if its too low and you double time really fast, you get fret clatter? 

[4000]

On 19/03/2020 at 10:44, Woodwind said:

 I'm curious on your thoughts as to why this would be the case.

I've heard/read this before and on the face of it it doesn't make sense. The radius effects string to string height relative to each other, but string to fingerboard/fretboard height is unique.

I can see how plucking on the G and D string pulls the string into the radius, so with a tighter curve it could choke more, but then A and E etc are being pulled away from the radius (obviously this is reversed for plectrum downstrokes )

 

Is this what you mean by struggling to get a low action? that the tone becomes too inconsistent?

I've never played a tight radius board so  I'm from a position of ignorance.

My basses are 7.25 and I can get the actions very low. My old Rick 4000 used to have an action of 1mm at the 12th fret E. 

[CamdenRob]

Taking a measuring tape to my basses they all appear to be around 3mm from the top of the twelfth fret to the underside of the string. Is that high? Any lower and I get horrible clank.

[FinnDave]

5 minutes ago, CamdenRob said:

Taking a measuring tape to my basses they all appear to be around 3mm from the top of the twelfth fret to the underside of the string. Is that high? Any lower and I get horrible clank.

Mine are usually at least 3mm at the twelfth. Any lower and I have to really concentrate on playing gently.

[CamdenRob]

2 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Mine are usually at least 3mm at the twelfth. Any lower and I have to really concentrate on playing gently.

Yeah me too... I reckon yours are about the same as mine then 👍 

[CamdenRob]

Some people are talking about 1mm? That can’t be measuring from the same point as I am surely? It would be unplayable? How would the string have room to vibrate?

[Little Dragon]

I set mine from the 10th fret as I use a pound coin to gauge which is 2.8mm.

[CamdenRob]

2 minutes ago, Little Dragon said:

I set mine from the 10th fret as I use a pound coin to gauge which is 2.8mm.

I’ve just put a £1 under the E string at the 10th and that’s about where mine is too. The coin fits under but only just and not without touching the string.

I find it astonishing that anyone can have the strings a 1/3 of that distance to the fretboard?

[FinnDave]

5 minutes ago, CamdenRob said:

Some people are talking about 1mm? That can’t be measuring from the same point as I am surely? It would be unplayable? How would the string have room to vibrate?

i've never understood the posts that say they have an action of 1mm or so - my strings would rattle if I even looked at them at the that kind of action. 

I find a medium (1/8" or 3.2mm) action at the twelfth is less tiring to play than having to go easy with a lower action.

[4000]

9 minutes ago, CamdenRob said:

Some people are talking about 1mm? That can’t be measuring from the same point as I am surely? It would be unplayable? How would the string have room to vibrate?

Yep, top of the 12th fret to the underside of the string.

I think you’re underestimating how lightly some people play, and that, as previously discussed, some of us like a sound that incorporates a little buzz (but not clank). I both fret and pluck very, very, very  lightly. 2 of my 3 current basses have just had a fretstone and have been set at 2mm 12th E, roughly 1mm 12th fret G, but I may drop the E side a hair. 

I’ll add that I usually play with a pick in a very guitaristic manner, but I wouldn’t want the action any higher when playing with fingers.

Personally I struggle to understand how anyone can play most of the basses I play in shops, I can barely even fret most of them. 
 

Edited April 2, 2020 by 4000

[CamdenRob]

1 minute ago, 4000 said:

Yep, top of the 12th fret to the underside of the string.

 

I think you’re underestimating how lightly some people play, and that, as previously discussed, some of us like a sound that incorporates a little buzz (but not clank). I both fret and pluck very, very, very  lightly. 2 of my 3 current basses have just had a fretstone and have been set at 2mm 12th E, roughly 1mm 12th fret G, but I may drop the E side a hair. 
 

That’s astonishing... I’d have to see it in  action to believe it 😆 

[4000]

1 minute ago, CamdenRob said:

That’s astonishing... I’d have to see it in  action to believe it 😆 

Have a look at a typical shred guitarist; that kind of how I play, bass allowing. 😉

[4000]

IIRC Wolverinebass likes his action a fair bit lower.😉

[Stub Mandrel]

13 hours ago, 4000 said:

some of us like a sound that incorporates a little buzz (but not clank). 

I like to be able to get some clank a la Entwhistle, but don't like buzz.

It's very, very personal. even down to where you play.

[4000]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I like to be able to get some clank a la Entwhistle, but don't like buzz.

It's very, very personal. even down to where you play.

Absolutely. And of course one man’s clank could be another man’s buzz and vice versa.😉

[Woodwind]

17 hours ago, CamdenRob said:

I’ve just put a £1 under the E string at the 10th and that’s about where mine is too. The coin fits under but only just and not without touching the string.

I find it astonishing that anyone can have the strings a 1/3 of that distance to the fretboard?

I like using coins as reference.

Out of interest I Just rummaged through my pocket for shrapnel and can't fit a penny under my E string at the 10th fret position (fretless fingerboard)

[bloke_zero]

One of the joys of fretless is the super low action

[bloke_zero]

Speaking of which - where are people putting their fretless action?

Weirdly I have a bit of time on my hands and I'm thinking if I can just get the action right on my fretless I'll be able to play like Jaco (not).

[CamdenRob]

39 minutes ago, bloke_zero said:

Speaking of which - where are people putting their fretless action?

Weirdly I have a bit of time on my hands and I'm thinking if I can just get the action right on my fretless I'll be able to play like Jaco (not).

Just checked my fretless... roughly a £1 at the 10th so the same as my fretted.

[CamdenRob]

I must be doing something wrong... maybe I’ll drop a bass off at proper tech for a set up and see if they can get it any lower without clank or buzz for my playing style.

[Woodwind]

1 hour ago, CamdenRob said:

I must be doing something wrong... maybe I’ll drop a bass off at proper tech for a set up and see if they can get it any lower without clank or buzz for my playing style.

Lower action is by no means essential 🙂 I bet you get your instruments to sound the way you want them to and that's what matters.

I only use a low set up and light touch to take as much tension out of my playing as possible to avoid the risk of irritating old tendon injuries.

[Woodwind]

2 hours ago, bloke_zero said:

Speaking of which - where are people putting their fretless action?

Weirdly I have a bit of time on my hands and I'm thinking if I can just get the action right on my fretless I'll be able to play like Jaco (not).

I have a tiny, tiny amount of relief in the neck (it varies depending on the weather more on this bass than others I've owned) and then about 1.4mm on the E to 1mm on the G at the 12th octave (and this seems to be pretty much the same height up to the end of the fingerboard).

I have the nut cut very low so the strings are almost touching the fingerboard at the nut.

I use light tension strings as well, so certain things Jaco did can't be done on my bass. Thankfully I don't want to play/sound like him as it wouldn't fit the music I'm involved with.

[Stub Mandrel]

43 minutes ago, Woodwind said:

I use light tension strings as well, so certain things Jaco did can't be done on my bass.

Must remember that excuse...

[franzbassist]

Pressing at the first fret, I go for 1.5mm on the G and 2.25mm on the E at the 12th fret, with about .25mm relief at the 9th fret. This is my starting point, which I then tweak to taste as needed. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by franzbassist

[Woodwind]

13 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Must remember that excuse...

Oh it can be used for all sorts of things 😃