2stringsmcginty Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This is something I've struggled with for quite some time, and been caringly told a few home truths about my current level of ability by the worship leader at church I've only ever played as part of a church band and often have the words with chords written over them or occasionally just have the chord progression and I'm nearly in time, but often not quite. I've never worked out how to practice this at home to work out timing and get a bit fed up and put my bass down and go play model trains. My bass isn't in the best condition and I had been looking at replacing it, but fitting flat wounds changed the feel of it and a bit of set up work has made it feel ok, but how do I go about learning one of the most important parts of playing bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421108640' post='2657350'] This is something I've struggled with for quite some time, and been caringly told a few home truths about my current level of ability by the worship leader at church I've only ever played as part of a church band and often have the words with chords written over them or occasionally just have the chord progression and I'm nearly in time, but often not quite. I've never worked out how to practice this at home to work out timing and get a bit fed up and put my bass down and go play model trains. My bass isn't in the best condition and I had been looking at replacing it, but fitting flat wounds changed the feel of it and a bit of set up work has made it feel ok, but how do I go about learning one of the most important parts of playing bass? [/quote] Two things. Listening in detail and a metronome. Get a good pair of headphones or speakers and listen to the tracks religiously trying to pick out the detail of each instrument and learning what they sound like, listening specifically for the bass drum, snare, cymbals, and obviously the bass. Once you can hear these you will begin to notice how you can play in time more and more. The other aspect is a metronome, this is effectively the only and best way to practice timing. As a bass player you have two functions; to keep in time/groove, and to sound harmonically/tonally good. Also sounds like it's worth finding yourself a good teacher, where are you based out of curiosity cause if you're based local to Portsmouth/South Hampshire I'd be more than happy to take you on as student or if you're further away then I can suggest a number of sites where you can search for tutors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421108640' post='2657350']...how do I go about learning one of the most important parts of playing bass? [/quote] This... [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1421109299' post='2657352']...it's worth finding yourself a good teacher... [/quote] ...by a long chalk. Guaranteed the fastest, most cost effective way forward. Try it..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 All the above, but learning how to listen properly is crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Try this, it's something I tell my students to imagine. Set your metronome to a reasonable tempo, 60 BPM or somewhere like that. Listen carefully to it clicking, and visualise a ball bouncing in time to the click. It's hitting the floor on the click, at the top of its bounce is the off beat. Concentrate on this, and really get it into your mind. Tap your foot along to it, clap along to it. Pick uo your bass. Practice playing quarter notes along to the click, getting your notes on the click. Practice playing eighth notes, again get your first note on the click, the second is at the pinnacle of the ball's bounce. Sixteenth notes you add another half way up the bounce, and half way down. Get a good teacher too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's all about practice, practice, practice. A good teacher is a good investment, but if you don't have the money, then grab a metronome & do what ambient said. When playing at home or with the band, count the beats. If you don't know the time signature, ask someone. With worship music, a song is most likely 3/4, 4/4 or 12/8. Youtube is a good place to learn things too. And until you're ready, ask the WL to avoid songs with hard basslines such as "Salvation is here" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stringsmcginty Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's this kind of thing we're working on playing at the moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbdJXKqVgtg I often get my chord changes slightly out of time. I'll give playing with a metronome a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1421109299' post='2657352'] Two things. Listening in detail and a metronome. [/quote] Listening in detail to what though? You need to know what to listen out for. You need to know the breakdown of a beat, i.e. crotchet, quaver, semi-quaver and how to hear them. Having a visual by being able to read the rhythms on a stave is also very helpful. With all the music out there learning new rhythmic combinations is a never ending process. A metronome does indeed help but you still need to know the above to utilise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 i had exactly this issue. I'd got very lazy, mostlyh through not working with a teacher or playing with anyone else who would have picked me up on timing. The only solution I found was to go back to basics and learn timing from scratch, with a metronome.It takes a certain amount of guts to admit you have a problem and you're through that stage. I used to listen to records at work on headphones and really listen for the drumbeats and tap along. Then I'd listen for the bass line and tap that out whilst thinking about the drum beats. This helps break up the metronome monotony.I did some drummer tests online, where you hear beat one of bar one and have to tap out the other beats and you get scored on how accurate you are (yamaha site, I think, but try google for others). You get better (at that part anyway) a lot quicker using those, I found. Obviously you also need to train your hands as discussed above, but training your head is important first, in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421135969' post='2657416'] It's this kind of thing we're working on playing at the moment: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbdJXKqVgtg"]https://www.youtube....h?v=sbdJXKqVgtg[/url] I often get my chord changes slightly out of time. I'll give playing with a metronome a go. [/quote] Good gracious..! If, with all that 'stomping' going on, there's still a doubt as to where the 'beat' is, get thee hence to a very good teacher, post haste..! That's an excellent substitute for a metronome, beaten only by disco. Good luck with your projects. (...[i]rushes off to look up his Grateful Dead disks in a desperate attempt to return to normality[/i]...) Edit: For the sake of balance... http://youtu.be/BQoYkL6nTW4 Edited January 13, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1421111650' post='2657366'] All the above, but learning how to listen properly is crucial. [/quote] This... put the track on and play to it. Keep doing it until you can play the track. If you can't do this, I'd say you aren't upto speed and need to put the time in until you are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Echo what has been said about the rythm. Get in to the habbit of tapping your foot on the "on" beat through all of the song. Will help when you and or the drummers go off on fills. Getting the changes is all about bar counting and or listening to vocals or another part. When I first started I religiously counted each bar, really helped understand where I was in a 16 bar solo for example. Once you get practiced, you can relax in to the song more, listening for the changes with the feel of the 8/16/32bar structures most songs are in. Some songs can catch you out if they are not standard and it is a case of remembering that this middle 8 is a middle 12 or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 For tracks like that, just get the count going in your head and make sure everyone else plays to a time.. no free-for-alls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stringsmcginty Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1421138040' post='2657428'] i had exactly this issue. I'd got very lazy, mostlyh through not working with a teacher or playing with anyone else who would have picked me up on timing. The only solution I found was to go back to basics and learn timing from scratch, with a metronome.It takes a certain amount of guts to admit you have a problem and you're through that stage. I used to listen to records at work on headphones and really listen for the drumbeats and tap along. Then I'd listen for the bass line and tap that out whilst thinking about the drum beats. This helps break up the metronome monotony.I did some drummer tests online, where you hear beat one of bar one and have to tap out the other beats and you get scored on how accurate you are (yamaha site, I think, but try google for others). You get better (at that part anyway) a lot quicker using those, I found. Obviously you also need to train your hands as discussed above, but training your head is important first, in my humble opinion. [/quote] I used to play drums but struggled with timing, coordinating 4 things going on at once was hard and I could just manage to keep the beat, I could not do a fill and drop back into time or offer much variation beyond switching from hi hat to ryde I am dyspraxic - found out when I was 21 after I'd learnt to do many things I apparently shouldn't be able to do so I accept it may take longer for me to crack, but it's not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421143262' post='2657490'] I used to play drums but struggled with timing, coordinating 4 things going on at once was hard and I could just manage to keep the beat, I could not do a fill and drop back into time or offer much variation beyond switching from hi hat to ryde I am dyspraxic - found out when I was 21 after I'd learnt to do many things I apparently shouldn't be able to do so I accept it may take longer for me to crack, but it's not impossible. [/quote] My friend has this, it screws his timing up playing guitar, but he's got much better. I would say keep the bass lines very simple, learn the changes and don't be tempted to flower it up with fills or things. Play it straight and get to know it so well that when you change chords you know it's coming rather than hearing the band change and then changing, which will obviously mess things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If that track is the kind of musical style you're after, I'd go and get a ton of folk-rock stuff, especially the more current stuff like Mumford. Listen to nothing but a load of these tracks until the music really gets inside you. It doesn't matter so much whether you get into the song content, just soak up the vibe and check out what's going on with the bass. You will either get it or decide you really don't want to play like that. 😃 +1 to finding a good teacher. . this can save you an age of struggling to work out whatyou're struggling with! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stringsmcginty Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Having read the advice you've all given (thanks for being helpful and supportive) I've realised how little I listen to music these days. As a student I always had music on when working At work Radio 6 Music is on but a bit quiet, I can't have headphones in and motorbikes don't have radios. I'll work something out Never got on with metronomes before as I couldn't work out if I'd got it at the right speed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassjon Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I used to play in a band that just opened the book at a page and followed the chords. This is not the best way to play because you are focusing on getting the root notes correct rather than hearing the band as a whole and playing what's necessary. Get a book of the songs and play them with a metronome. Once you start remembering the changes you are free to come up with bass parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You need to play with a band more and learn more songs in a band environment. I've never sat down with a metronome in my life and I've never had any timing issues. My education came through playing with live drummers from day one and from learning as many songs as I could. Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stringsmcginty Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 I've got a music book for one of my favourite bands (Switchfoot) I'll dig that out and get playing. I'm guessing I can find a metronome app for iPhone. Probably take a few attempts to get metronome in time with the CD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You only need a metronome if practicing 'naked'. If the CD is playing just concentrate on the time of the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421144960' post='2657530'] motorbikes don't have radios.[/quote] Mine does. http://www.cardosystems.com/scala-rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421146448' post='2657552'] I've got a music book for one of my favourite bands (Switchfoot) I'll dig that out and get playing. I'm guessing I can find a metronome app for iPhone. [/quote] There are zillions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedmanzie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) [quote name='2stringsmcginty' timestamp='1421146448' post='2657552'] I've got a music book for one of my favourite bands (Switchfoot) I'll dig that out and get playing. I'm guessing I can find a metronome app for iPhone. Probably take a few attempts to get metronome in time with the CD! [/quote] you don't put the metronome and the song on at the same time. set the metronome to a slow tempo (50bpm) sit in a darkened room (optional!), count 1 2 3 4 so that your '1' is on the click. nice and steady and even, play a note on the 1. do this for 10 mins. then play the note on the 1 and 3, do this for 10 mins. then play the note on the 1, 2, 3, 4. do this for 10 mins. My prescription is once a day for two weeks. Dr Manzie Edited January 13, 2015 by tedmanzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stringsmcginty Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 [quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1421149913' post='2657600'] you don't put the metronome and the song on at the same time. set the metronome to a slow tempo (50bpm) sit in a darkened room (optional!), count 1 2 3 4 so that your '1' is on the click. nice and steady and even, play a note on the 1. do this for 10 mins. then play the note on the 1 and 3, do this for 10 mins. then play the note on the 1, 2, 3, 4. do this for 10 mins. My prescription is once a day for two weeks. Dr Manzie [/quote] Cheers doc, It appears the pharmacy is out of metronomes at the mo, I'll try an app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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