Twincam Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Not really sure exactly what im looking for out of this thread. But im a little frustrated as i sound pretty good playing with effects, or in any sort of mix (with or without effects), and even with the washing machine on ive noticed i sound better. Playing solo with no effects i don't sound half as good. And i can hear all the little mistakes and overtones. Ive always wanted to sound good clean, ive always wanted to be a James Jamerson if you like. Clearly im not. Should i work on this or just use what im good at. As at the min im fighting against my natural style my ears want clean bass my hands want something different. I will admit im a little lost at what i should be doing. At this point im better and learning faster at working on basses than i am playing them. Edited January 21, 2015 by Twincam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I recently listened to Cliff Burton's solo'd bass track from Master of Puppets on YouTube recently and it was full of clanks and clunks, fret Buzz and string scrapes none of which could be heard in the mix. Listened to Jason Newsted's part from Enter Sandman and same thing again. Both players which I think are generally fairly well thought of in their field (I know it's not motown by any means), but when I heard them out of the mix I thought the playing sounded really sloppy. In the mix though it sounds great and that's where the punters will hear you too so I wouldn't worry overly. Although practicing clean playing is obviously no bad thing either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMX Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) That bit of human nuance, the scrapes, rattles and buzz (could be a new cereal) is what makes playing music so damn cool. It makes our own style distinctive too. You wouldn't want a robot playing bass. At the same time, as others have said, it's no bad thing to clean up your playing a little. Play slowly with a metronome. Edited January 16, 2015 by HMX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Sounds like you need to revise how you are practising - getting the accuracy and muting techniques to play cleanly requires a patient approach to practice. Try getting out the metronome/drum machine and practising your lines/scales/arpeggios really slowly, and focus on clean even execution - you might be suprised how challenging it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 If you mean squeaks and string noise that are so obvious when you're playing alone then I wouldn't worry about them as they tend to get drowned out once you're in a mix. But it's possible that there are other things about your playing that might stand out when you're solo that you should work on - as @SubsonicSimpleton says above, learning to play evenly with a metronome is always going to improve your playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I've only heard a few isolated bass tracks taken from best selling albums and like Painy has already mentioned they exhibit all manner of additional noises that disappear when placed within the final mix - bear in mind that even those could have been the best take or a patchwork of best take drop-ins. Whilst this is no excuse to support sloppy playing I wouldn't get too frustrated in your search for playing perfection as it'll drive you mad - play as cleanly as you're able and enjoy the music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I've always despised how I sound when recording and the bass track is isolated, but maybe I'm not the best person to ask for an opinion, being my own worst critic and all that. All mixed together, it sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yep isolated many bass tracks have squeaks/clanks etc on them, yet sound great in the mix. One of the reasons I like dead roundwound strings is you get less of this. But I`m only ever really concerned if it comes through whilst I`m playing - and I`ll notice it if it does. For myself, I`ve noticed that if I have some drive/gain going on, I don`t notice the extra noise whereas if the amp is completely clean I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Bass on its own rarely sounds great to me, even when the greats play, it comes alive in a band situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) exhibit A [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ReSk1nNdz8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ReSk1nNdz8[/url] Edited January 16, 2015 by Chrismanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 All of the above. Hard to appreciate when you hear it in isolation but fretbuzz, and tiny clanks and clips is all part of what gives a live recorded bass it's life in the mix. That and the fact it sits around the beat in a way a keys bass just can't replicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1421434780' post='2661277'] exhibit A [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ReSk1nNdz8"]https://www.youtube....h?v=1ReSk1nNdz8[/url] [/quote] Explains it all perfectly Chris - it`s amazing how that track sounds so good in the mix, yet isolated is very uninspiring. I wonder how, if it were clean/technically perfect, it would have sounded in the actual song. Rotten probably, and JD would have possibly got his name down as a poor bassist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1421435206' post='2661283'] Explains it all perfectly Chris - it`s amazing how that track sounds so good in the mix, yet isolated is very uninspiring. I wonder how, if it were clean/technically perfect, it would have sounded in the actual song. Rotten probably, and JD would have possibly got his name down as a poor bassist. [/quote] that would be interesting to hear i remember seeing the foo fighters rockumentary where they talk about going from recording with pro tools to making a record with tape again and how you've just got so simply "play better" because things can't be fixed to the same extent i wonder what bands such as queen and the like would've made of pro tools if they'd had it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 When I sold my knacker Ashdown rig and bought my first Genz Benz rig, a 2x12T and a Shuttle 6.0 head I could not understand what I was wrong with it, then it dawned, it was me! Playing with that much clarity made any slightly bad timing stick out like a sore thumb! I am still a sh*t player but at least I found out what it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 All the buzz, clanks, squeaks, squronks & fharts are what makes it rock & roll! I dont want to sound pristine & clean. I'm in a rock band not a solo player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynottfan Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Isolated bass tracks can sometimes be a can of worms, lol Here Mr Deacon reminds me of how its (for me anyway) great to hear a bass player lay down the groove and play off the vocal melody, a dying art imho. The one thing Twincam are you not happy with your sound because it doesn't sound like A)you want it to or maybe how you influences sound (I used to fall in to this trap). Also do you use just fingers or pick, maybe a bit of polishing is required to your overall technique, also do you get a better sound with certain effects? Good luck mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 A bit of finger noise is not a problem imo, but what should be avoided at all costs is allowing the last note still to sound whilst playing the next one; that will always sound muddy and horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggiesnr Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Bass is a group instrument, in real life how often are you going to be the only instrument playing? Sure work at technique to play as cleanly and accurately as possible but once you're in the mix most of the "extra" sounds will be gone. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameronj279 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1421435206' post='2661283'] Explains it all perfectly Chris - it`s amazing how that track sounds so good in the mix, yet isolated is very uninspiring. I wonder how, if it were clean/technically perfect, it would have sounded in the actual song. Rotten probably, and JD would have possibly got his name down as a poor bassist. [/quote] Perhaps this means that Adam Clayton is actually just a very clean and technically perfect bassist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1421424748' post='2661077'] Not really sure exactly what im looking for out of this thread. But im a little frustrated as i sound pretty good playing with effects, or in any sort of mix (with or without effects), and even with the washing machine on ive noticed i sound better. Playing solo with no effects i don't sound half as good. And i can hear all the little mistakes and overtones. Ive always wanted to sound good clean, ive always wanted to be a James Jamerson if you like. Clearly im not. Should i work on this or just use what im good at. As at the min im fighting against my natural style my ears want clean bass my hands want something different. I will admit im a little lost at what i should be doing. At this point im better and learning faster at working on basses than i am playing them. [/quote] Effects can camouflage a lot of ills and I don't think that's what you want. Practice until your solos sound cool clean, then carefully pick and or decide if you want an effect. I take one solo in out first set. After 50 years of playing I really think solos are better suited for the acoustic, up right or double bass. I was never keen with solos on the electric bass guitar and we had a lot of them back in the 70s. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedoghouse Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Pretty much what others have said. My tone when heard alone is not really what I would think of as a 'solo' tone I would choose ... but, once in the mix (live) I think it sounds just right. Standing in front of my rig I can hear all the little bits of finger noise etc I wouldn't want heard, but once out in front of the PA and heard as part of the whole band it sounds totally different and just as I would hope it would. As long as your technique and feel is sound you should be ok in the mix. Playing with effects is a different story. Are you playing with effects for the good of the song and overall sound of the band or to mask your perceived(?) unsatisfactory sound? It took me a very long time to realise that what sounds good to my ears solo doesn't necessarily sound right in the mix. Good luck :-) Edited January 16, 2015 by inthedoghouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Perhaps not a universally popular piece of advice, but do away with the effects pedals for a while and spend some time on raw technique. Firstly, you're going to have to 'unlearn' bad habits to relearn good ones, and it's easier to do that sooner rather than later. Secondly, if you're inadvertently relying on effects to disguise technique that needs tidying up then you're always going to have to play with effects. There will come a time when they aren't appropriate. Once you're satisfied with your clean technique add the pedals back into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlank Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 My big problem was trying to be heard over loud drummers and deafening guitar players. My "technique" was to hit the strings as hard as I could so I would be heard over the apocolypse of noize. After a few years of not playing bass at all, I started to play again and all the old habits came out in force: bad muting; sloppy timing; bad muting. To adress the bad muting I put the amp settings to no bass, all treble and a fuzz box- I could hear every little scrape, overtone and unwanted sound that I didn't want. Helped a lot. Learned to just stop a lot of the unwanted noize that came out of the speakers. Learning to mute those strings, sounds easy but can be a difficult thing to achieve, until you know how to do it easily. Check out Scot Devine on You Tube-invalable.. And this guy. Feckin' speechless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuzKT1bhhIQ&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1421427409' post='2661126']muting techniques to play cleanly requires a patient approach to practice. [/quote] Guitarist in my band picked up my new Dingwall and tried to pick out a few lines this week - I was reminded on how much good playing hinges on having control of the bass rather than just hammering away - open stings ringing out, improper fretting, general untidiness. Pretty much all about the left hand being busier than just fretting. That YYZ clip is pretty special Qlank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ok so just been practicing and had a real listen at myself and whats coming through more than anything is my hands shifting position, seems i catch just lightly some strings, but also after fretting and shifting my fingers i slightly slide my fingers coming off the string. Slow playing i sound ok even medium tempo i sound ok. The quicker i have to shift about the more noise i generate. I have just came back to playing rounds so im maybe more sensitive to this. Im not to bothered about some clanks and fret buzz or even a little overtones (although overtones im sensitive too) i rarely get any buzzing anyhow. Just that amount of noise im generating ive never heard anyone sound that bad. A simple example would be if i play a 7/6 arpeggio in G since i have small hands im forced to move up and down with my hand ever so slightly where others can stay in one spot. Im going to try lifting off cleaner and i think im going back to flatwounds, actually gonna put some tapewounds on there. Me and rounds don't mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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