Action affecting tone.

[Painy]

Before last night's gig I decided to try lowering the action on my bass a little by dropping the saddle height by one full turn - a fairly subtle change in the action but it felt pretty good so off I went to my gig.
When I started playing in the soundcheck though, I thought there was something wrong with my amp. No bottom end and the bass was completely lost in the mix even with the volume cranked way higher than I'd normally have it. After checking every connection and setting was where it should be with no joy, our lead guitarist asked if there was anything at all I'd changed since the last gig. With everything else I could think of eliminated as the cause, I wound the saddles up again to where they had been and BOOM! It was like an earthquake (I still had the volume cranked up on my amp).
Has anyone else ever noticed a really drastic difference in tone from a small change to their set up?

Edited January 18, 2015 by Painy

[FinnDave]

If you set the strings too low, the magnetic field of the pickup(s) can have a damping effect on them.

[Cameronj279]

I raised the action very very slightly on my bass a few weeks back and found it sounded a hell of a lot better. Note clarity, low end and dynamics were all so much better. although annoying it did mean higher action which I'm not a fan of.

[HowieBass]

I think there's something of a sweet spot with string to pickup distance; however lowering the saddles might have introduced a little note choking as well (not bad enough to notice as loud fret buzz but enough to make the tone sound a bit 'dead'). I've not noticed dramatic tonal changes with raising or lowering pickups, it's been more volume changes for me (though I've never reduced the gap to less than about an 1/8").

[Painy]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1421594220' post='2663027']
I think there's something of a sweet spot with string to pickup distance; however lowering the saddles might have introduced a little note choking as well (not bad enough to notice as loud fret buzz but enough to make the tone sound a bit 'dead'). I've not noticed dramatic tonal changes with raising or lowering pickups, it's been more volume changes for me (though I've never reduced the gap to less than about an 1/8").
[/quote]

It's more this choking of the fretted notes that I was referring to. When I was chatting to our guitarist afterwards about the difference it had made I described it as being like dead frets across the whole neck (I have the neck set very flat so it was the same everywhere).

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1421593455' post='2663013']
I raised the action very very slightly on my bass a few weeks back and found it sounded a hell of a lot better. Note clarity, low end and dynamics were all so much better. although annoying it did mean higher action which I'm not a fan of.
[/quote]
Thats what the pickup height screws are for

[Dan Dare]

Notice you have the neck flat. In my experience, a small amount of relief, i.e. forward bend (and I do mean small) helps if you like a low action.

[Painy]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1421599271' post='2663100']
Notice you have the neck flat. In my experience, a small amount of relief, i.e. forward bend (and I do mean small) helps if you like a low action.
[/quote]

I do actually mean very flat rather than actually completely flat. About 1mm relief across the full length of the neck. I think it's actually the nut that needs sorting to get the action down to where I want it rather than just a case of lowering the saddles but I'd rather let a pro do that in case I make a mess of it. For now though i'm just happy to have it sounding good and once the set up is right it should just make it feel that much easier to play

Edited January 18, 2015 by Painy

[HowieBass]

With a string held down at the first and last frets, a relief of about 1mm is actually rather a lot - I set my basses up with about .012" relief (measured at the 8th fret) which is roughly 1/3mm though you're right in wanting to get the nut slot depths correct especially if you measure the action without fretting the strings. You can use a length of old roundwound string as a makeshift file to deepen a nut slot if it's only a small adjustment required.

[Conan]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1421625492' post='2663482']
You can use a length of old roundwound string as a makeshift file to deepen a nut slot.
[/quote]

What an excellent idea! I never would have thought of that...

[Conan]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1421593035' post='2663008']
If you set the strings too low, the magnetic field of the pickup(s) can have a damping effect on them.
[/quote]

Depends on the pickups.

EMGs, for example, have a very weak magnetic field and you can set the pickup height as close to the strings as you like (within reason!) without the field effect you describe. In fact, EMG recommend that you do so!

[pfretrock]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1421623510' post='2663472']
think it's actually the nut that needs sorting to get the action down to where I want it rather than just a case of lowering the saddles but I'd rather let a pro do that in case I make a mess of it.
[/quote]

Saddle height is adjusted to taste, but looks like you had a sweet spot previously. On the other hand there is only one correct nut height. If you fret at the third fret, there should be daylight under the first fret. I think it should be a few thou ( 6 ?) You need to check each string and I'd definitely get a pro to adjust. This test is only good if you know the frets are level!

[notable9]

Just to broaden out the discussion a bit.
I do find it hard to understand why bassists are seemingly obsessed with "low action", or plays like butter etc. I can understand guitarists thinking this way with the thinness of the strings they play, but bass is a bigger instrument which,lets face it is physically harder to play but which still demands that good tone is produced
The idea that you can set up a bass to play "easy" like a guitar is wrong. Bass guitars are almost mini double basses which are not easy at all, at least not to start with.
Hence the best tone is achieved like a double bass with a high action which allows the strings to really get moving
Apparently Jamersons P had immense high action just like a DB, but boy did he get a great tone, but then Geddy Lees J has amost no action at all and to me it just sounds clanky and grindy which I know appeals to some but it does'nt really sound like a good solid bass tone to me.
I shall now retire to my nuclear shelter....

[Conan]

[quote name='notable9' timestamp='1421668322' post='2663700'] Geddy Lees J has amost no action at all and to me it just sounds clanky and grindy which I know appeals to some but it does'nt really sound like a good solid bass tone to me.
[/quote]

Horses for courses. Geddy plays in a three-piece rock band so he has a rather large "sonic space" in which to work. If he was having to compete with two guitars and keyboards, then even he might find that his current tone might need adjusting slightly...

It works for him, in his band. Problem is, loads of other players then use his tone in other bands...

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1421593455' post='2663013']
I raised the action very very slightly on my bass a few weeks back and found it sounded a hell of a lot better. Note clarity, low end and dynamics were all so much better. although annoying it did mean higher action which I'm not a fan of.
[/quote]

Surely you could just leave the action where you like it and lower the pickup a bit?

[JTUK]

No... I don't find lowering the action loses the tone.

[Twincam]

[quote name='notable9' timestamp='1421668322' post='2663700']
Just to broaden out the discussion a bit.
I do find it hard to understand why bassists are seemingly obsessed with "low action", or plays like butter etc. I can understand guitarists thinking this way with the thinness of the strings they play, but bass is a bigger instrument which,lets face it is physically harder to play but which still demands that good tone is produced
The idea that you can set up a bass to play "easy" like a guitar is wrong. Bass guitars are almost mini double basses which are not easy at all, at least not to start with.
Hence the best tone is achieved like a double bass with a high action which allows the strings to really get moving
Apparently Jamersons P had immense high action just like a DB, but boy did he get a great tone, but then Geddy Lees J has amost no action at all and to me it just sounds clanky and grindy which I know appeals to some but it does'nt really sound like a good solid bass tone to me.
I shall now retire to my nuclear shelter....
[/quote]

Having tried all sorts of setups i agree with this partially, but i think there's definitely setups that allow for easier playing while still getting a good tone.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1421689862' post='2664005']


Surely you could just leave the action where you like it and lower the pickup a bit?
[/quote]

The action was too low for notes to ring out fully so this wouldn't have worked. Still plays great, just a little bit more effort needed to play. Still a low action compared to a lot of other basses I've played.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='notable9' timestamp='1421668322' post='2663700']
The idea that you can set up a bass to play "easy" like a guitar is wrong. Bass guitars are almost mini double basses which are not easy at all, at least not to start with.
Hence the best tone is achieved like a double bass with a high action which allows the strings to really get moving
[/quote]

The same discussions go on in double bass forums, as aside from ease of playing, we're trying to strike a balance between the cleaner sound and stronger projection of a higher setup and the increased growl and sustain of a lower setup. Many modern (late 20th century onwards) jazz styles and tones are barely possible with a higher string height.