Ashdown B Social - really?

[Merton]

[quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1422652880' post='2675353']


This is true, I've not seen or heard the product. What I have seen is the marketing and the proposed price, which was all that was available, so as a business, if no customer has actually seen, used or heard the product, then you are relying on the marketing to promote it.

As a prospective customer, who actually likes Ashdown amps and cabs, I am stating that at this price point it is not attractive to me. I was drawn to the product because of the concept but I cannot justify in my own mind spending that amount of money on something like this. You can have a go at me not understanding the the quality of the the technology or the effort you've put in to the development if you like but at the end of the day, I have the money in my pocket and you have to convince me to give it to you.

I hope that, given the obviously huge investment you've made, that this is a success and I am more than prepared to be proved wrong. But again, as a prospective customer I am not tempted to seek one out to try and really this is what you want us to do.

And for the record, there was never an intention for this to an Ashdown bashing thread; it was a discussion of whether the 'market' considered this product to be worth the retail price attached to it.


Steve
[/quote]

Cool beans 2, tho my comments weren't really aimed at you

[Merton]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1422648158' post='2675225']
While i respect Ashdown. And i have nothing at all against there amps unlike others here. And i will try be as respect full as possible in my reply.

I honestly still think 4 speakers 2 bass and 2 full range would of been more practical (probably would work better too), cheaper because you could of then used off the shelf speakers!. Less development time (2 years developing the speaker).

I actually have said i like the idea but i think there are some flaws in my view.

As for my comments about frequency i did say it does not paint the whole picture. I am willing to be proven wrong and learn on all my comments. I am just saying it as i see it which in this case is it could be cheaper and perform just as well if not better.
[/quote]

Cool beans 3

Look ma, I can count

[waynepunkdude]

I agree with the other comments, I like the look but couldn't justify the price.

[odysseus]

£600? Sod that....

[Billy Apple]

Lovely beard placement.

[Evil Undead]

I love Ashdown amps, I've used them for quite a long time on and off (the "off" times were purely because of weight when I was out gigging) and am very happy with my current Mibass combo.

The only reason I'm sorry that it's £600 is that I don't have £600 right now, but consider me starting to save for one! Everything I need plus more in a little space saving box that me and the Mrs can also use for music and movies from phone/iPad? Sold!

P.S. You guys are really harsh. Those scathing comments were unpleasant to read through. At least try something before bitching about it in public.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Evil Undead

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Evil Undead' timestamp='1422691342' post='2675629']
I love Ashdown amps, I've used them for quite a long time on and off (the "off" times were purely because of weight when I was out gigging) and am very happy with my current Mibass combo.

The only reason I'm sorry that it's £600 is that I don't have £600 right now, but consider me starting to save for one! Everything I need plus more in a little space saving box that me and the Mrs can also use for music and movies from phone/iPad? Sold!

P.S. You guys are really harsh. Those scathing comments were unpleasant to read through. At least try something before bitching about it in public.
[/quote]

£37 tiny [url="http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/recording-studio/detail.asp?stock=14020810311032&gclid=Cj0KEQiAl7KmBRDW6s-Xi_uT9OgBEiQAZdbbSYg0oJ4eXdsBs_dERfE9mTuDvLAXBoHRvt4epTUG5X4aAqFS8P8HAQ"]http://www.guitargui...G5X4aAqFS8P8HAQ[/url]

£5 Tiny [url="https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/6658257636927956215?q=bluetooth+audio+receiver&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=643&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.85076809,d.ZGU&tch=1&ech=1&psi=NV3NVKTKNMm17gaJl4HoBQ.1422744844379.3&prds=paur:ClkAsKraX0yz5GGkxHG0_q8rZme909VwALiEc5wI8eB6DFmQPaBnNjVyGf1Qn8qnmcqMnry9HEoEqT4ov4taPa8kwSOej90EP_TEiAzAiXRne9fKadAAKQXQthIZAFPVH7050gCKwEBOs9-qUzA9zZf05omFLA&ei=Ol3NVO6lJaqZ7AbgtYDwCg&ved=0CJYBEKYrMAA"]https://www.google.c...ed=0CJYBEKYrMAA[/url]

£95 Compact [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mackie-CR3-inch-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B00OZ9NNLU/ref=sr_1_6/279-6383433-6116541?ie=UTF8&qid=1422744999&sr=8-6&keywords=home+studio+monitors"]http://www.amazon.co...studio+monitors[/url]

The whole lot for less than £150.

Edited January 31, 2015 by waynepunkdude

[kevvo66]

£600 hundred notes!,God spare me days.think I'd gone with £150 option myself as mentioned by Wayne

Edited January 31, 2015 by kevvo66

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1422745173' post='2676469']
£37 tiny [url="http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/recording-studio/detail.asp?stock=14020810311032&gclid=Cj0KEQiAl7KmBRDW6s-Xi_uT9OgBEiQAZdbbSYg0oJ4eXdsBs_dERfE9mTuDvLAXBoHRvt4epTUG5X4aAqFS8P8HAQ"]http://www.guitargui...G5X4aAqFS8P8HAQ[/url]

£5 Tiny [url="https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/6658257636927956215?q=bluetooth+audio+receiver&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=643&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.85076809,d.ZGU&tch=1&ech=1&psi=NV3NVKTKNMm17gaJl4HoBQ.1422744844379.3&prds=paur:ClkAsKraX0yz5GGkxHG0_q8rZme909VwALiEc5wI8eB6DFmQPaBnNjVyGf1Qn8qnmcqMnry9HEoEqT4ov4taPa8kwSOej90EP_TEiAzAiXRne9fKadAAKQXQthIZAFPVH7050gCKwEBOs9-qUzA9zZf05omFLA&ei=Ol3NVO6lJaqZ7AbgtYDwCg&ved=0CJYBEKYrMAA"]https://www.google.c...ed=0CJYBEKYrMAA[/url]

£95 Compact [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mackie-CR3-inch-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B00OZ9NNLU/ref=sr_1_6/279-6383433-6116541?ie=UTF8&qid=1422744999&sr=8-6&keywords=home+studio+monitors"]http://www.amazon.co...studio+monitors[/url]

The whole lot for less than £150.
[/quote]

What's all this crap? Not a beard in sight!

[chriswareham]

Impressed that someone from Ashdown has taken the time to come on here and defend their product, but sorry, having suffered your amps in most London rehears studios in recent years you're fighting a losing battle. A few big names may use your gear, but they must be getting them as endorsements, since I'd rather use Peavey cabs and Behringer heads given the choice (and I use them as examples since they seem to be the only alternative in London). Plus, I know the bass tech for one of those names mentioned, so I know in that specific case your gear's only used since he's endorsed by you.

[Moos3h]

Full disclosure, I quite like some of Ashdown's products and they have often filled a nice gap in the market (thinking the MAG series here).

However, whilst I respect your passion for your product, I take issue with the accusation that anyone that considers the price point to be too high is insane.

The product is niche, it's not mass market by it's very nature - you won't sell many till you dump the price into 'I'll give that a go...' territory. You may be happy with this (after all it's not about box shifting) but as a company, I'd suggest being a little more pragmatic in the face of feedback.

If a product like this isn't well received on a forum where people choose to spend their time discussing bass guitars, as a company I would be concerned that a significant part of an already slim marketplace isn't digging it.

Post meant in good faith - if you chose to write the naysayers off as 'insane' when most of us are commenting on the price point alone (entirely a fair value judgement based on the information available) that's your right, however the internet is littered with the corpses of well-intentioned 'defenses' from companies' official quarters.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1422759426' post='2676564']
Impressed that someone from Ashdown has taken the time to come on here and defend their product, but sorry, having suffered your amps in most London rehears studios in recent years you're fighting a losing battle. A few big names may use your gear, but they must be getting them as endorsements, since I'd rather use Peavey cabs and Behringer heads given the choice (and I use them as examples since they seem to be the only alternative in London). Plus, I know the bass tech for one of those names mentioned, so I know in that specific case your gear's only used since he's endorsed by you.
[/quote]

I think that's unfair, whilst Ashdown aren't my cup of tea they obviously have a huge fan base both at hobby and pro level.

I just feel that this product as nice as it looks could be replicated at a fraction of the cost.

[BluRay]

I'm not sure this is a niche product. Clearly some people think the price makes it high end. But that's OK isn't it? There's room in the market for cheaper and pricier products that are differentiated by quality, features, appearance and other factors. That people here get vexed about something they haven't seen or heard seems a bit sad really. I'm not saying opinions aren't valid but they aren't shared by everyone. That we have a small but quite successful British company prepared to try new things and push the boundaries a bit should be a good thing really. IMO.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='BluRay' timestamp='1422784828' post='2676643']
Clearly some people think the price makes it high end. But that's OK isn't it?
[/quote]

Time will tell. No offence to Ashdown, but it's years since they were thought of as a premium brand.

Bergantino or AER might have an easier time charging big bucks for sonething like this.

Question for Ashdown - is it manufactured in the UK?

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Ashdown Engineering' timestamp='1422631135' post='2674901']

Having just returned from the NAMM show the B-Social was a huge hit(winning a spot in the top 5 products of NAMM 2015) and not one person who tried it/saw it quibbled about the price in any way. Also for the guy who said it won't handle a 5 string we had numerous 5 strings going through it at NAMM and a couple of 6 strings... All sounded great.



[/quote]

I have had a bike for sale for the last month, I have had many enquirers, no one has quibbled with the price, it's still in my garage.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Ashdown Engineering' timestamp='1422631135' post='2674901']
Sorry but when you have been building bass amps for 34 years and spent 2 years on developing a truly groundbreaking product to then read some of these ill informed comments is quite upsetting. Especially when none of you have actually seen, used or heard the product...

...

How about you actually have a play with one before you decide if its any good, Is that not fair?
[/quote]

This. Any 'judgment' based solely on a product's feature set is no more than speculative. Nobody knows whether a product will work [i]for them[/i] until they get out there and try it.

There are plenty of products (e.g. AER Amp One) that are 'aspirational' on Basschat, with people saying 'I would love one of those if I had the money, but for now I will make do with X.' How does anyone know that the B Social won't become one of those?

Here's an idea: Lock this thread, then re-open it in a year (with suitable fanfare) and see what we all think then.

[Billy Apple]

I think if you sold this for £399 the hipsters will think it's Amstrad bunk. Stick a heavy label on it and it becomes niche and the hipsters will lap it up. The price of the bits in the box is neither here nor there.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Billy Apple

[Moos3h]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1422787142' post='2676669']
This. Any 'judgment' based solely on a product's feature set is no more than speculative. Nobody knows whether a product will work [i]for them[/i] until they get out there and try it.
[/quote]

Sorry, but that's only valid for a product category that already exists and is clearly defined.

i.e. 'Hey guyz we iz launching a new bass amp with 100000 wattz and it iz gunna sound phat....oh but it's liek FIVE MILLION DOLLARZ LOL' is one thing and it'd be fair to say 'well, if you haven't heard it, you can't really say whether it is or isn't worth five million'.

But if you're saying 'Good morning fellow bass players, have you yearned for a bluetooth equipped amp (no) that has an app (no) and sounds pretty awesome (it very well might) and you can use it instead of your Sonos/Bose/PurplePeopleEateriDock....oh but it's £600' then it IS enough to rate it as seen, on spec-sheet alone.

Fact is, and I can only speak for myself but would venture it's true for others - THAT spec should be £250-300 which puts it in the 'got-a-few-quid-to-spend-and-feel-like-buying-something' category. If Ashdown take nothing away from this thread (and it sounds like they won't) then it should be 'hmmm, imagine how many more we would sell if it was cheaper'.

Unless it was made from a single piece of Unobtainium and had an Apple logo on it. Sorry but them's the rules.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Moos3h

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1422785777' post='2676651']
I have had a bike for sale for the last month, I have had many enquirers, no one has quibbled with the price, it's still in my garage.
[/quote]

Well, we'll see which sells first. The Ashown B Social or Waynes Grifter

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1422635396' post='2674997']
It's a real shame Ashdown have to come on here defending themselves like this, especially from ignorant comments about frequency response.

They are a British success in a worldwide market, I understand people may not "get" the product but it seems to have turned into an unnecessary flaming a la the Barefaced threads.

Let's leave this one be shall we
[/quote]
People bashing equipment before they've even heard or tried it? Surely not!

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1422787142' post='2676669']
There are plenty of products (e.g. AER Amp One) that are 'aspirational' on Basschat, with people saying 'I would love one of those if I had the money, but for now I will make do with X.' How does anyone know that the B Social won't become one of those?

[/quote]

That's true, I don't remember seeing the "What, a grand for a 200w 1x10" combo?!!!" thread about those.
I guess the difference is that AER are considered high end while many people associate Ashdown with the cheap n'cheerful (or affordable and useful, depending on your viewpoint) EB and MAG gear seen in rehearsal rooms and pub gigs across the land. It's a bit hard on Ashdown, since they cater for several different levels of the market.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Moos3h' timestamp='1422788029' post='2676683']
Sorry, but that's only valid for a product category that already exists and is clearly defined.
[/quote]

That, I am afraid, is a complete non sequitur!

If I plug into a B Social, I might go 'meh', I might whip out my credit card on the spot. The point is, I just don't know.

Full disclosure: I was an Ashdown user for about 12 years but vastly prefer my current setup, so no axe to grind on behalf of Ashdown!

[Ashdown Engineering]

[quote name='Moos3h' timestamp='1422782270' post='2676614']
Full disclosure, I quite like some of Ashdown's products and they have often filled a nice gap in the market (thinking the MAG series here).

However, whilst I respect your passion for your product, I take issue with the accusation that anyone that considers the price point to be too high is insane.

The product is niche, it's not mass market by it's very nature - you won't sell many till you dump the price into 'I'll give that a go...' territory. You may be happy with this (after all it's not about box shifting) but as a company, I'd suggest being a little more pragmatic in the face of feedback.

If a product like this isn't well received on a forum where people choose to spend their time discussing bass guitars, as a company I would be concerned that a significant part of an already slim marketplace isn't digging it.

Post meant in good faith - if you chose to write the naysayers off as 'insane' when most of us are commenting on the price point alone (entirely a fair value judgement based on the information available) that's your right, however the internet is littered with the corpses of well-intentioned 'defenses' from companies' official quarters.
[/quote]

Can totally see and appreciate your points here and and maybe my explanation wasn't too clear when discussing price/features etc and we do certainly always appreciate your guys feedback on here...

As it is now that is the price based on whats gone into it we can not get it any cheaper... The only way to make it cheaper would be to remove features/downgrade components which would kind of make it redundant before we've started and what would be the point? Totally understand £599 is not an insignificant amount of money and agree because of that it will not be a product that's for everyone only time will tell but if we don't try to do anything truly new, exciting and different life would be a bit dull eh...

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1422759426' post='2676564']
Impressed that someone from Ashdown has taken the time to come on here and defend their product, but sorry, having suffered your amps in most London rehears studios in recent years you're fighting a losing battle. A few big names may use your gear, but they must be getting them as endorsements, since I'd rather use Peavey cabs and Behringer heads given the choice (and I use them as examples since they seem to be the only alternative in London). Plus, I know the bass tech for one of those names mentioned, so I know in that specific case your gear's only used since he's endorsed by you.
[/quote]



Your dislike of Ashdown is irrelevant to this thread and comes across as a little spiteful. How does your preference for Peavey and Behringer gear have any impact whatsoever on what other people choose to play?
And as a previous recipient of an endorsement deal with them, I can assure you that Ashdown don't go chasing 'celebrity' users, or pay for product placement. All of the bassists previously mentioned use Ashdown because they want to. Same as me.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Cosmo Valdemar

[Ashdown Engineering]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1422785453' post='2676646']
Time will tell. No offence to Ashdown, but it's years since they were thought of as a premium brand.

[/quote]

Comments like this are always interesting. There are many so called 'boutique'/'premium' brands we look and we just think really? Cabinets that consist of off the shelf drivers in an average box with cheap backplates but sell for £1k... Amps that have no bass below 80hz? Amps that claim one power but actually produce way less. Amps that say they're built in one place but in fact they are actually pre assembled in another country all together... Etc Etc. But hey it would be wrong for us to start talking about all that.

All of our amps have a 5 year warranty and our new ABM Foundation cabinets actually have a lifetime warranty for the original owner meaning if you blow a speaker in 15 years time we will replace it no questions asked. How many 'premium' brands offer this? This is how confident we are in our products today.

We have no contracts with any of our artists and not only do we not give product away for free we also do not 'pay' artists to use our gear(there are a couple of high profile American brands very guilty of this at the moment) Any artist using Ashdown has paid something for it and uses it simply because they want to use it of which we are very fortunate so many great players choose to use our gear. For example - Nate Mendel and his tech spent a week with every bass rig they could get hold of a few weeks before Christmas to test and naturally we were a little concerned, thankfully for us he still preferred his Ashdown set up at the end of it so it starts to grate a little when people start saying things like 'he only uses the gear because he's endorsed' as it is totally untrue.