Bloody pub landlord!!!

[barneyg42]

The woman who appears to book bands for pub A wanted us for her retirement do as she used to teach our guitard at school and had seen us a few years ago. We do the gig, not a great payer but with the renta crowd pot it topped up nicely. Enter my old mates brother in law...met him a few times and been talking to him online. He sees the band and asks if we wanted to do the pub he books for, his brother in law is a very old friend who plays there regularly. Pub B is about 4 miles from Pub A. He's an agent so it's fee less his little bit, net amount is a bit more than our usual and a good bit more than pub A. I check with the band, all ok with it so he comes back with a couple of dates. Cue our singer in a panic last night as pub A has done their collective bollox at us playing so close to them and that my mate keeps poaching bands off them for their rival pub. Now the quote was "brownie points from *insert pub A's landlords name* if you cancel"
What a lovely position to be left in, our singer is trying to get gigs from pub A whilst I'm using my connection to get gigs from pub B! and the pub A landlord is trying to back us into a corner. He also sent my contact a sh*tty message too!
End result, 1 gig at pub A although reluctantly on both sides I guess and two at pub B. And checking both gig lists there is only one band that has four gigs at pub A and just one at pub B! Hardly poaching all the bands is it!

Rant over!!

Edited January 29, 2015 by barneyg42

[M@23]

Wow. We play two pubs that are literally a stones throw apart in one town and another two that are exactly opposite each other in another town with none of that nonsense. There is no shortage of bands here though, so maybe bookers/landlords aren't as touchy.

[Twincam]

I would be canny pissed off if someone was trying to back me into a corner like that.

[neepheid]

One of the venues in town has a "don't play anywhere else in town 2 weeks before/after you play here" type of policy, but that's the only restriction I've come across in our neck of the woods.

[barneyg42]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1422559471' post='2674158']
I would be canny pissed off if someone was trying to back me into a corner like that.
[/quote]

To be honest we're busy enough without their gigs, it was such a good venue we couldn't wait to play there again, just didn't think there would be such a fuss about playing 4 miles down the road!!

[Maude]

If a pub told us we couldn't play anywhere nearby I'd happily take a retainer fee for the nights they don't want us playing.
But I can't see any pub offering that so I'll play where I like thank you.

[jonnythenotes]

Does he also get pissed off if people buy beer in any other pub but his..... These Harvey Goldberg landlords cheese me off. If someone offers me money to play somewhere, I don't phone around asking the local pub bosses permission to see if he will let me play in the same town as a what he perceives as the opposition. I make a living playing in bands, as do a few other guys I know, and 60 or 70 quid means more to me than keeping the pubs gaffer happy...

[Adrenochrome]

Yep, had the same with the Thornhill Arms in Stanningley and the Golden Lion in Pudsey, and to a lesser extent the Coniston and the Brewery Tap in Idle. Funnily enough the Lion & Crimea in Castleford never tried it and they co-existed very well with punters often swapping pubs at half time.

[gjones]

The trick is to play at pub A under a different name to pub B. My band goes under 3 different names so nobody gets upset. It keeps everybody happy

[chrismuzz]

My band got taken off a support slot in Wolverhampton because we are playing Birmingham 4 weeks beforehand. Now that's weird!

[discreet]

I had no idea this sort of thing went on. I've never experienced it.

[quote name='jonnythenotes' timestamp='1422560548' post='2674181']
Does he also get pissed off if people buy beer in any other pub but his...
[/quote]

Quite. The market decides. Laying down playing restrictions is just control-freakery. Or communism. Maybe a bit of both...

Actually, thinking about it... I was in a local bar having a drink when the landlady of another pub I used to frequent came in and roundly chastised me for not drinking at her place! I thought she was having a giraffe, but apparently not! Way to get me to go back to your pub, missus! Not!

[JTUK]

I think you want a relationship with LL's so you need to try and keep it cordial and reasonable and no one is really going to want to
play down the road within 2 weeks or so...but sometimes the diary gets a little close and there is nothing they can really do.
If someone tries to tell you what you can do..you really need to decide if you have much of a relationship to rescue..
4 miles is a ridiculous limit tho... and I'd ignore that.
Some bands play the same town every week but I assume they get crowds not to worry about it.
I think you'd bore people if you were too frequent in a locale.

We pick 2 pubs per town...there really isn't that many good music venue pubs anyway, and say that is as much as we'd do..and of course, we'd try not to play on top of dates..but that isn't the pubs call. If bands play too close to together and attendences suffer, then so will their fee bargaining..
Just needs a little common sense by all, IMO.

[JTUK]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1422562758' post='2674211']
My band got taken off a support slot in Wolverhampton because we are playing Birmingham 4 weeks beforehand. Now that's weird!
[/quote]

We had pubs ask us not to play a local venue within 4 weeks of their gig and vice versa, but since we were selling tickets it made sense
not to play a local pub too closely..as that would hurt sales. The pubs even lobbied the Brewery who put the gigs on.. and we did agree to a 4 week limit but that was only because the venue was paying up a LOT more than a pub fee and we wanted to keep it as it was a very good and prestigous gig from our POV.

[taunton-hobbit]

I had Geno & the Ram Jam Band a week after the California at Dunstable and some pillock agent tried to threaten me, allegedly 'cos Ms Green The then owner of the Cali was hacked off - I told him (& her) to do one...............

[JTUK]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1422563645' post='2674220']
We had pubs ask us not to play a local venue within 4 weeks of their gig and vice versa, but since we were selling tickets it made sense
not to play a local pub too closely..as that would hurt sales. The pubs even lobbied the Brewery who put the gigs on.. and we did agree to a 4 week limit but that was only because the venue was paying up a LOT more than a pub fee and we wanted to keep it as it was a very good and prestigous gig from our POV.
[/quote]

The simple maths is, is the pub gig/gigs worth more per year in terms of cash than the one bigger/better gig..?
and which gig do you like most..?

[UglyDog]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1422557875' post='2674133']
Wow. We play two pubs that are literally a stones throw apart in one town and another two that are exactly opposite each other in another town with none of that nonsense.
[/quote]Likewise. Two of our regular haunts are 30 feet apart. Never a moment's trouble from either of them.

[paul_5]

[quote name='Maude' timestamp='1422560270' post='2674176']
If a pub told us we couldn't play anywhere nearby I'd happily take a retainer fee for the nights they don't want us playing.
But I can't see any pub offering that so I'll play where I like thank you.
[/quote]

Nice!

[Norm]

Had the 4 week thing from a few pubs down south west but that was a few years ago. Bristol venues like Fleece & Louisiana have a 2 week clause in their contracts, i i r c?
As long as they are shifting good vol of beer most LL's couldn't give a flying fork what bands name is or what youre playing or even if youre any good. Its just about coin!

[PaulWarning]

it is a tricky one, but we've turned gigs down if gigs in one town are too close together, apart from anything else your regular fans will get pissed off with seeing you, went to see a band in the main music venue in my home town and there was hardly anybody there, then found out they'd played the pub over the road a fortnight before, in my book that's unprofessional behaviour and something I wouldn't do

[JTUK]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1422611314' post='2674529']
it is a tricky one, but we've turned gigs down if gigs in one town are too close together, apart from anything else your regular fans will get pissed off with seeing you, went to see a band in the main music venue in my home town and there was hardly anybody there, then found out they'd played the pub over the road a fortnight before, in my book that's unprofessional behaviour and something I wouldn't do
[/quote]

Agree.... but it is only really a factor if attendences are hurt and you wont know that until they've played, and been paid.
I think this is an unhelpful selfish attitude by bands ..
This kind of re-enforces my idea or preference that bands should agree a min fee and then have bonuses paid if and when they excel.
This will help the landlord in his costing and benefit the bands that pack the place out as they have obviously hit the mark..and get rewarded
for their 'efforts'....
There are one or two units here that work full time and they insist on £300 fees..or did, but apart from them not being that good, I've never seen them do too well with attendences either so I don't know how they get away with it for so long..???
That leads me to think there is more money/profit in a crowd than I'd expect.

On the basis that I think there is around £1.50 'profit' on a pint...you need to sell 150-ish pints to pay the band £200 but that doesn't take into account other costs, of course..

A barrel of beer might cost the tied LL £115 and with wastage..?? what is that, 80 pints at £3.50=£280..less £115 =£165 'profit'..???
Ballpark figures, IMV...and only on beer sales.

[Dave Vader]

The landlord of my local once told me he wouldn't book any band that had ever played in one of the other two pubs in town.

I then told him he didn't pay enough for me to really give a toss.


He is a mate, so he took it in the spirit it was intended luckily.
It's true though... although there's only one other pub in town now, and it's sh!t.

[stuckinthepod]

Unless Pub A are paying you a retainer as the "house band" it is none of their business. 4 miles away is hardly next door!

Edited January 30, 2015 by stuckinthepod

[chris_b]

[indent=1]A lot of huffing and puffing.... this happens. That's it.[/indent]

[indent=1]Most places don't bother, but if the venue thinks this is going to protect their profits then they'll make these rules. There were 2 gigs in Brentford, W London, less than a mile apart and (the better) one wouldn't book any band that played in the other. They are the promoter so it's their rules and your choice.[/indent]

[indent=1]If you do Am Dram then you'll know all about being prevented from putting on a play that is planned for or currently in the West End or on a national tour.[/indent]