POLL!

[discreet]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1422643937' post='2675151']
Just had a quick look, it'd take half hour to listen to them all, I'm not sure many people would have that kind of time.
[/quote]

Well... being an active sporty type maybe [i]you [/i]don't have the time, but I know for a fact that a good few people spend a great deal longer than half an hour a day browsing on BassChat - mostly in the For Sale forums. It wouldn't hurt much to listen to the entries while doing it, as has already been suggested by lurksalot.

Having said that, you can't coerce people to do something they don't want to do, and I wouldn't want that anyway.

Edited January 30, 2015 by discreet

[BigRedX]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1422645402' post='2675180']
most people on here have access to a computer or tablet that can host a digital audio workstation, the skills are not particularly difficult, but do need the will to want to learn
[/quote]

No the skills aren't difficult to learn, but they are difficult to master well. After years of being a dedicated home-recordist, I've pretty much given up because I've recently worked with people who are so much better than me at getting stuff sounding good in a fraction of the time it would take me to get far less satisfactory results.

Also I'm a terrible singer and lyricist, so anything that wasn't purely instrumental would have to be done in collaboration with someone who is. I much prefer songs to instrumentals and I'm sure I'm not alone in this regard. To do something in the time frame allowed it's much easier if I do it all myself which means an instrumental only composition. As a voter I'm nearly always inclined to vote for a track with a decent vocal on it rather than an instrumental, so long as it meets the challenge brief.

Edited January 30, 2015 by BigRedX

[RhysP]

When it first started I used to listen to the entries & vote, but to be honest I just got bored listening to music that just didn't really do anything for me.

I also got to the point where I thought there was no point as it's usually a one horse race, with the same person winning nearly every month, especially as his music connects with me the least out of all the entrants I've heard.
Maybe one of the rules should have been the winner does not take part in the following months competition to give others a chance? I think that might have made it hold my attention for a while longer

The monthly badgering of people to get more involved every month pisses me off too - it's a bass players forum, not a recording forum. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really have any interest in any of that stuff, certainly not to the point where I want to get involved in a competition.

[Green Alsatian]

I've lurked for a few months, but this is a subject that interests me and I certainly appreciate the effort people put into running, taking part and voting in them. It shows how much they care for the BC community. On the subject of a lack of people voting, it's been that way on several forums I've participated and entered, so I don't think it's indigenous to BC. It's difficult to listen to music that you don't particularly like. There's also how people are digest BC - phones and tablets might not be convenient for listening to entries, as they are on a laptop or desktop.

The answers in the poll above don't really cover my experience with the competitions, so I list my thoughts on it here:

1. I'm aware of the challenges, but often forget about them. I tend to visit BC for numerous short 'hits' rather than lengthy visits. I've also been in lurker mode for several months.

2. I'm often reminded of the challenges by clicking on 'disguised' threads in General Discussion. I understand this ticks people off, but I find it amusing and has led to me voting in the past.

3. I've voted in two competitions in the past and this month. I haven't voted in all competitions as I feel it's not something one can quickly judge. Listening to the entries and then offering feedback/deciding which is my favourite isn't a quick process. To put it in context, I don't listen to music much at home these days, it's mostly when on the move, so to take in a selection and evaluate a quantity of new and unheard music requires me to the right frame of mind to invest the time. When voting, I listen to all entries, note down songs that stand out, listen again and then whittle them down, which usually takes me an hour. That's not to say the entries aren't deserving of my time - they are and I think it'd be nice for more of the community to listen to and vote, but I think people need to [i]want to[/i]. I think most of you know how hard it is to get others to listen to your music - there is so much of it about and it can be disheartening when it isn't being heard. I'd say a large proportion of members just want to drop in, browse and chat rather than listen to each other's music.

4. I think the best way to encourage more voting is better visibility - I suggested a sticky with a link to the entries at the top of each sub-forum in a previous discussion. This successfully increased visibility in other forums, including one I moderated in the past.

5. I'd like to enter and was a regular contributor to a monthly 'cover' challenge on a synth forum and on a friend's band forum 6 or so years ago. I'm currently stuck in what's been a 5-year (to date) period of absolute writer's block. I mostly noodle these days, but it's not enough to reignite the creative 'spark'. Perhaps entering a competition will help one month but we'll see.

Suggestions for the competition:

- a sticky at the head of each sub-forum. It can be ignore by people who aren't interested in the competition, but it will certainly increase visibility and possibly attract a wider audience.
- someone has already mentioned this, but having the entries as a playlist on a Basschat Soundcloud page.
- make the entries anonymous until the voting has ended. We did this on another forum as there was the perception that people were voting for friends/popular members rather than their real favourite.
- explore themes other than pictures - video, animation, literature, a genre or specific rule like a 1 minute composition. Still allow the winner to decide.
- as a 'prize', a sticky featuring the winning entry left up in at the top of all sub-forums until voting begins on the following month's competition.
- don't force the competition on people. Promote and make the community aware of it, but it's still their choice if they participate - I don't think brow-beating or attempting to guilt people into listening if they're not into it is productive.

Hope this helps.

[Skol303]

^ Super useful. Thanks

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1422651439' post='2675321']


The monthly badgering of people to get more involved every month pisses me off too - it's a bass players forum, not a recording forum. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really have any interest in any of that stuff, certainly not to the point where I want to get involved in a competition.
[/quote]

+1

[Coilte]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1422651439' post='2675321']
The monthly badgering of people to get more involved every month pisses me off too - it's a bass players forum, not a recording forum. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really have any interest in any of that stuff, certainly not to the point where I want to get involved in a competition.
[/quote]

You may be in the minority, but you are not alone. I agree with the above....especially the first sentence.

You'd imagine that people would have got the ..."we are simply not interested"...message, and leave it at that.

[Skol303]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1422651439' post='2675321']
...it's a bass players forum, not a recording forum. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really have any interest in any of that stuff, certainly not to the point where I want to get involved in a competition.
[/quote]

That's a very good point Rhys and something I'm always mindful of.

We know from a previous user survey that the majority of people here are middle-aged pub band players. And playing music doesn't, by default, make someone interested in making music. Or listening to it, either.

Two quite different interests, but I believe they can happily co-exist

Edited January 30, 2015 by Skol303

[Coilte]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1422653407' post='2675359']
Two quite different interests, but I believe they can happily co-exist
[/quote]

That's true, but only if people want to participate.

Being bombarded every month with big lettering reading...."Your Fellow Basschatters Need You"....is not my idea of "happy co-existing".

[Skol303]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1422653983' post='2675364']
Being bombarded every month with big lettering reading...."Your Fellow Basschatters Need You"....is not my idea of "happy co-existing".
[/quote]

Then you must have an especially delicate sense of happiness

But in all seriousness, I think the 'take home' message from some of you guys is that you'd like us to tone down the advertising of the monthly challenge.

Other people seem to think we should step it up a gear.

I'm of the opinion we should maybe make the monthly challenge more prominent - but cut down on the 'pestering'. A bigger, bolder advert maybe, rather than a barrage of little ones.

Anyway. This is all useful stuff, so keep it coming please!

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1422654590' post='2675373']
Then you must have an especially delicate sense of happiness

But in all seriousness, I think the 'take home' message from some of you guys is that you'd like us to tone down the advertising of the monthly challenge.

Other people seem to think we should step it up a gear.

I'm of the opinion we should maybe make the monthly challenge more prominent - but cut down on the 'pestering'. A bigger, bolder advert maybe, rather than a barrage of little ones.

Anyway. This is all useful stuff, so keep it coming please!
[/quote]

Agreed, having it pinned in General discussion the same way the picture comp is in OT.

[timmo]

I only found out about it because i am recently becoming more interested in equipment for recording. There seems to be a lot of people on the forum that don`t venture much down the bottom of the page, so perhaps it needs moving to general topic.First time this month i have voted, and was quite surprised by the quality of the recordings that were entered.

Edited January 30, 2015 by timmo

[Skol303]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1422655296' post='2675392']
Agreed, having it pinned in General discussion the same way the picture comp is in OT.
[/quote]

Good idea. I'm having that.

We could use the pinned thread for any discussion about that particular month's challenge whilst the voting is on.

It'd be prominent enough for everyone who's interested. And sufficiently 'contained' for everyone who's not.

Win-win

[lurksalot]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1422647700' post='2675216']
I love it. Most meaningful thread for me. Makes me work at composition and develop my writing chops.
[/quote]

I think its quite incredible , and almost feel like I am living the dream , well if you bear in mind that I am writing , performing (mostly), recording , producing and publishing my own compositions and songs , I would have killed for the opportunity 30 years ago , so now it is just fantastic.
The fact I get a vote or two is icing on the cake but to think that some members think my entry is worth a vote over the other choices is both exciting and humbling in the same breath.
[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1422650950' post='2675299']
No the skills aren't difficult to learn, but they are difficult to master well. After years of being a dedicated home-recordist, I've pretty much given up because I've recently worked with people who are so much better than me at getting stuff sounding good in a fraction of the time it would take me to get far less satisfactory results.

Also I'm a terrible singer and lyricist, so anything that wasn't purely instrumental would have to be done in collaboration with someone who is. I much prefer songs to instrumentals and I'm sure I'm not alone in this regard. To do something in the time frame allowed it's much easier if I do it all myself which means an instrumental only composition. As a voter I'm nearly always inclined to vote for a track with a decent vocal on it rather than an instrumental, so long as it meets the challenge brief.
[/quote]

I am with you on most of this , but I see it as a massive learning tool , when I don't get any better after a lot of effort , I may feel the same , but at the moment I keep finding things to improve on and these things are still fun , I am not producing commercially granted , but surely you having learnt what you have, gives you an insight to how you want the Terrortones to sound ?

[Skol303]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1422657460' post='2675433']
...but surely you having learnt what you have, gives you an insight to how you want the Terrortones to sound ?
[/quote]

That's the thing about mixing and production that a lot of musicians overlook [i][not BRX - I know he knows, y'know? ][/i]. "It's just techy stuff". No. It's a language that lets you speak fluently with sound engineers and producers. And those are the guys and girls who largely determine how your band will sound when playing live, or on an album.

It's a very useful lingo to speak

Edited January 30, 2015 by Skol303

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1422658166' post='2675453']...
It's a very useful lingo to speak
[/quote]

I'd agree. Shame I'm deaf and dumb, though.

[discreet]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1422659110' post='2675461']
I'd agree. Shame I'm deaf and dumb, though.
[/quote]

Semaphore? Just thought I'd flag that up.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1422657460' post='2675433']
I am with you on most of this , but I see it as a massive learning tool , when I don't get any better after a lot of effort , I may feel the same , but at the moment I keep finding things to improve on and these things are still fun , I am not producing commercially granted , but surely you having learnt what you have, gives you an insight to how you want the Terrortones to sound ?
[/quote]

I've been recording the bands I've been in, as long as I've been in bands - since the mid 70s. Up until the late 90s I could blame the sonic shortcomings of the output on the quality of the equipment being used, but since then my "home studio" has been using pretty much the same standard of equipment as most other mid-range commercial studios.

For my last serious band before the Terrortones I spent several hundred hours at home working on recording and mixing 4 songs for our second single/EP. No matter how much time I spent I could never lift the recordings above what I considered to be good demo standard. When compared with recordings from similar signed bands there was always something lacking, and no matter how much I fiddled with our tracks they never had the same punch or sparkle - those things that make a good sounding track a great one.

The when the Terrortones started working with the two engineers who recorded our EPs and they were able to achieve the results I had been struggling to get in a matter of hours, I realised that I simply didn't have what it takes to be able to make my own recordings to the standard where I would be truly happy with them.

Being able to speak the language as it were does have some advantages when it comes to communicating with the people who are actually making the recordings of your band, but I find that Mr Venom does just as well as me at articulating what he wants sound-wise despite having very little experience of being on the "other side of the glass" in a recording situation.

[Twincam]

I must say im slightly disappointed that some see it as badgering. After all Basschat is a good forum with mostly great members and is a community.

Asking people to get involved is not exactly badgering not as if your being press ganged with a stick. Or if you have to get involved.

There are many topics and things going on im not keen on i read the title etc and don't get involved and move on.

People should see this as a bit of fun. In which case why not make it a monthly bass riff challenge a short no longer than 1 min type thing.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Twincam

[discreet]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1422660030' post='2675479']
Asking people to get involved is not exactly badgering not as if your being press ganged with a stick.
There are many topics and things going on im not keen on i read the title etc and don't get involved and move on.
[/quote]

Yes! I suspected that generally most people aren't particularly interested, but I must admit to being a little surprised at the apparent irritation of some members about the whole thing - almost as if it's something that shouldn't be on the forum in the first place! Why?

Saying it's a bass forum and not a recording forum doesn't make sense to me - surely bass playing is music, recording is music, it's all part of the same thing isn't it? Or should the GAS 'N' GEAR aspect of the forum not be contaminated by any kind of creative musical output? It's almost as if being publicly creative is to be frowned upon, as if it's something dirty or shameful! Ooh, yeah.

Edited January 30, 2015 by discreet

[paul h]

Well I've been away from BC for about a year (apart from the odd lurk) and I decided to pop back when I saw various tracks pop up in my Soundcloud feed. I listened, I voted and I will probably take part next month.

So yay for the composition challenge say I!

[xilddx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1422660600' post='2675484']
Yes! I suspected that generally most people aren't particularly interested, but I must admit to being a little surprised at the apparent irritation of some members about the whole thing - almost as if it's something that shouldn't be on the forum in the first place! Why?

Saying it's a bass forum and not a recording forum doesn't make sense to me - surely bass playing is music, recording is music, it's all part of the same thing isn't it? Or should the GAS 'N' GEAR aspect of the forum not be contaminated by any kind of creative musical output? It's almost as if being publicly creative is to be frowned upon, as if it's something dirty or shameful! Ooh, yeah.
[/quote]
You know what mate, I'm really not surprised. Not these days.

Unless it's got at least 500,000 hits on youtube it's not worth the bother. And even then most peeps will only watch it hoping it's something they can take the piss out of or criticise.

[RhysP]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1422660600' post='2675484']
Yes! I suspected that generally most people aren't particularly interested, but I must admit to being a little surprised at the apparent irritation of some members about the whole thing - almost as if it's something that shouldn't be on the forum in the first place! Why?
[/quote]

Nobody is saying it shouldn't be on the forum, I've got no problem with it being on the forum, it just gets a bit tedious every month when the "Don't forget to vote" stuff starts when it should be very obvious by now that nobody apart from a small group of people give a sh*t about it.

People can be as creative as they want, and can post as many bits of their music on the forum as they want - great if that's what they want to do, just don't keep having a go at the people who aren't interested in listening to it.

I have no interest whatsoever in the monthly photography competition either, but the people involved in that seem to be quite happy to get on with it & not keep whinging about nobody looking at their pictures.

[xilddx]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1422664653' post='2675528']
Nobody is saying it shouldn't be on the forum, I've got no problem with it being on the forum, it just gets a bit tedious every month when the "Don't forget to vote" stuff starts when it should be very obvious by now that nobody apart from a small group of people give a sh*t about it.

People can be as creative as they want, and can post as many bits of their music on the forum as they want - great if that's what they want to do, just don't keep having a go at the people who aren't interested in listening to it.

[b]I have no interest whatsoever in the monthly photography competition either, but the people involved in that seem to be quite happy to get on with it & not keep whinging about nobody looking at their pictures.[/b]
[/quote]

What would you think if it was on a photography forum and no-one was interested?

[Weststarx]

I think it should be a sticky at the top of General Discussion as it works for the photo comp in Off Topic pretty well and its music related and inspires people to be creative.

Skol just wants people to get involved and is obviously passionate about it so I don't really understand why people are bashing him for pushing it. If I'm not interested in a thread I don't open it and if it is 'disguised' I move on, I don't understand how people would get irate over it - its the internet, people are going to post stuff you're not going to like or agree with on every website you go on.