JPJ Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Question for all the self-builders out there: Do you ever stray away from building a certain body shape because it feels wrong to use someone else's design? To explain my question, I've recently been considering a 'Fenderbird' for my next home build and have got as far as drawing up the body plan. Looking at the drawing it's plain to see where the legendary neck dive comes from and that got me thinking about the alternatives. Being a huge Overwater fanboi (I own two already, neither of which will be leaving my possession whilst my heart is still working) I'm drawn to the Original series body shape that, for those who don't already know, adds a top horn to what is basically a Thunderbird body shape. The problem is that even on the secondhand market, an Original series bass is well out of my budget. Now I could quite easily modify my Thunderbird body plan to replicate the Overwater, but whereas I have no issues building either a Fender or Gibson shaped bass, the thought of doing the same with the Overwater seems morally wrong to me! Perhaps it's the thought of Chris May jumping I his car and hoofing it the short distance over the A69 to rap me firmly on the knuckles for even contemplating such a act of IP theft/copyright infringement that's putting me off. I know we had a similar debate on here over on the Limelight thread regarding the use of Fender logos, but that was in a commercial context. Am I alone in this or does anyone else consider the issue of design ownership before getting the router out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 i would say if its for your own use, knock yourself out and build what you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I bought an original series bass off a friend at school 25 years ago. It had fallen forward from a stand and took the head off. Originally I bought it for parts as I was thinking of building my own bass at the time but I got my dad to stick it back together. I still have it and still really like it. I keep thinking of sending it back to Overwater to get it refinished, might do one day. Still, £60 well spent I think......... Why not make your own - it's for your own use and not being sold as a copy, or being passed off as the original item. Good luck!! Edited February 1, 2015 by Jabba_the_gut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 [quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1422803644' post='2676908'] ... Do you ever stray away from building a certain body shape because it feels wrong to use someone else's design? [/quote] I don't build basses but on the general issue of artists and others borrowing or stealing or copying ideas from others ..... ... it's both the norm, it's how art operates, and it's morally and aesthetically right to do it. The great artists all did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 How about [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]jumping into your car and hoofing it the short distance over the A69 to have a chat with the bloke..? Take some Hobnobs (he may have a kettle; you never know...) and get the goods from the Man himself. He might say 'No...' (in which case, hide the Hobnobs...); he might be flattered. Worth a shot..?[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]As for the principle, you're to be commended for even thinking of the notion. As long as there's no [/font][/color][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]supercherie, I don't see the problem, but there's a surefire way of finding out...[/color][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scojack Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Have the same dilemma, always wanted to do a 'homage' to a certain british bass luthier (I played one of his basses for 20+ years and stupidly sold it ). Figured that as long as i wasn't selling it or trying to market a 'copy' then it would be fine, especially as you could say these basses themselves bare more than a passing nod to something else . Never ventured to do it though as i know for a fact he wouldn't be happy but it's always tempting cause i really miss that bass. I would just go for it ! Betsy ...(The bass that is) Edited February 2, 2015 by scojack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Thanks for the input folks, I'm still unsure but today I plotted the Overwater shape on top of my earlier Thunderbird drawing, both are to the same scale. As you can see the Overwater is a much smaller bodied bass than the Thunderbird and whilst it sort of follows the Thunderbird outline at the bottom end, by the time you reach about one third along the length of the body, its substantially different. Food for thought as it should be possible to come up with a body shape that pays homage to both designs without directly copying either of them. [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JPJ/media/IMG_1306_zpsn5gnxqwk.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/JPJ/IMG_1306_zpsn5gnxqwk.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 [quote name='JPJ' timestamp='1422901801' post='2678147']...a body shape that pays homage to both designs without directly copying either of them. [/quote] Forget the term 'copying'. Think instead 'inspired by'..? That, to me, would put to bed any and all qualms on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 way I see it.... if you use that body shape, same shape headstock, put the pups in the same place, and the knobs... then that's a direct copy. If you use that body shape, different headstock, different knob position.... then it's not going to be mistaken. plus if you did get the thunderbird shape and want to improve it you would make it slightly smaller... and then add a top horn..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1423304614' post='2683239'] way I see it.... if you use that body shape, same shape headstock, put the pups in the same place, and the knobs... then that's a direct copy. If you use that body shape, different headstock, different knob position.... then it's not going to be mistaken. plus if you did get the thunderbird shape and want to improve it you would make it slightly smaller... and then add a top horn..... [/quote] This is where I'm pretty much at at the moment. Thunderbird shaped to about 2/3's length (wider mid-body than the Overwater) then a top horn similar to a Jazz bass and a bottom horn that is sort of halfway between the Overwater and the Thunderbird. I'm also thinking of a square edge to the body like the T'bird rather than the radius of the Overwater. The body will have a raised centre section on the front (flat on the back), tapered wings, Thunderbucker pickups, Thunderbird style control placement, edge mounted jack socket. F style neck with modified headstock (no design as yet), possibly four strings or five, can't decide at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I would suggest that you go back to the original intention of the body shape and create your own version of it without exactly copying Overwaters. Looking at by Overwater Original bass the body shape is essentially the back part of a Thunderbird and the horns/cutaways of a Jazz, so I'd start by tracing both shapes and then combine them smoothing out the curves in the transition area until you have an overall shape that you find aesthetically pleasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1423485934' post='2685292'] I would suggest that you go back to the original intention of the body shape and create your own version of it without exactly copying Overwaters. Looking at by Overwater Original bass the body shape is essentially the back part of a Thunderbird and the horns/cutaways of a Jazz, so I'd start by tracing both shapes and then combine them smoothing out the curves in the transition area until you have an overall shape that you find aesthetically pleasing. [/quote] Thanks for that, that is pretty much where I am at right now. I'll post a picture of the finished drawing once its done. BTW, was that you who was selling the Original series fretless on eBay the other week? Did you get a sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yes that was my fretless Original. Now in the very capable hands of Basschat's Doctor Of The Bass. Looking forward to seeing your take on the shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 So a bit more 'design work' today. After experimenting with various neck positions, to use a Fender style neck, I will need to modify the neck end of the body to accommodate a neck pocket. So after much head scratching and plotting, I've arrived at a bottom horn shape that works (and gives better upper fret access). I've also got a starter line for the upper bout (if I stay faithful to the T'bird shape) and I can also see how I can graft on a top horn a la Overwater. I think the next step will be to cut the two competing shapes out of a sheet of MDF in order that I can get a better feel for how they work in the flesh. [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JPJ/media/IMG_1322_zpszd3o7z4o.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/JPJ/IMG_1322_zpszd3o7z4o.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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