Money in the Music Business

[Bilbo]

This is something that is never really talked about for reasons that are obvious (would I want my personal financial business paraded around the internet/media)but it is something that has interested me a great deal for sociological rather than financial reasons. What does 'being a professional musician' mean in financial terms.

We all see the major stars turning up in limos at premiier events and we all have a story here and there about this celebrity's drug bill, alcohol rider or guitar/car/helicopter collection. Nevertheless, there is a surprising lack of information out there about the kind of earnings that a musicians can attract. I am less concerned about the Macartney's of this world and more interested in what kind of living is made by, say, a Guy PRatt or Leland Sklar, or the bass player in Kasabian or Elbow or Magnum or the Uli Jon Roth band.

Jazz musicians are another closed book; what does Wynton Marsalis get per gig, or Keith Jarrett or, more importantly, what do Jarrett's sidemen get. And what about clincians like Wooten and Berlin? It's all a mystery but I would love to know what kind of living these guys make. I know a lot of the 1950s guys (Paul CHambers etc) were pretty much living hand to mouth most of the time and thise sessions they all did for BLue Note etc were for $50 a shot or something like that. Paul Chambers/Jimmy Cobb etc got £300-400 odd for Kind Of Blue, a multi million selling LP by THE Jazz artist of the day.

We often hear of US musicians who, late in life, need money for operations/treatment because of the crippling cost of medical interventions in the US but there are also stories of UK musicians who are in difficulty because they can no longer play for some reason. We all know what we earn but I get the impression that, with very few exceptions, most of the musicians we admire are on their proverbial arse most of their lives.

[Drax]

It's a shame but you're absolutely right. The pro's I know are far from rolling in it, despite very good gigs with household names.

It's possibly one reason that many pro's are not gear obsessives, in those formative years there isn't the spare cash to throw around on endless kit changes.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Drax

[JTUK]

Well, a successful sideman in the 90's might be pretty well set up by now if he continued working
even though today's rates are rubbish by comparison.
In the 90's he'd be able to afford a Porsche with cash and buy his house outright, iirc..
and now he would be fighting with the collegue kids for a pretty high profile girl act who pays £150 a gig.
Not saying the two acts/gigs are exactly comparable, of course, but there seems a MASSIVE difference.

[JTUK]

A way to look at it is who is available at what monies now..?
Put in an ad and you'll get good players willing to travel 90mins to a gig
for £150 plus exes, so that puts them in function band territory.

[Dad3353]

Much the same as most industries, I'd guess..? There are moguls and magnates, but the general, the run-of-the-mill blokes doing their honest job, from 'surface technician' to middle, or even upper, management, are not swanning around in flash Italian coupés. They're just earning their crust, spending their wages; in short, living. Musicians, actors, comedians, shop assistants... Much of a muchness. The few exceptions that are in the spotlight on 'telly or in the 'people' mags are just that; exceptions. It's virtual, for the most part.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Dad3353

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1423053319' post='2679994'] Paul Chambers/Jimmy Cobb etc got £300-400 odd for Kind Of Blue, a multi million selling LP by THE Jazz artist of the day.

[/quote]

well $400 in 1959 equates to about $3,225.59 now. Not bad for 2 sessions.

Especially as no-one had any idea they would end up as a multi miliion selling LP.

[neepheid]

I think I'm doing it wrong. I would have starved to death long ago if I had to rely on my music for a living

[JTUK]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1423059892' post='2680133']
I think I'm doing it wrong. I would have starved to death long ago if I had to rely on my music for a living
[/quote]

I doubt too many full time muso's I know earn much more than £20k p.a .. and £30k is exceptional
and I doubt they do it by playing fees alone.

[KevB]

I got matey with one of the guys I ended up being in the house band with when we were doing open mics. I got him in to do a 2-man outdoor gig with me as part of our street party for the jubilee. He popped over to run through some tracks at my place and got quite whistful saying that he grew up in the area I'd moved to but there was no way he could afford to buy somewhere near me now. I don't have a particularly well paid job and live in a very run of the mill semi. He's gigging every week and also doing one to one lessons. He's an excellent guitarist, bass player and more than adequate on drums, also plays a bit of keys and has a good singing voice. Been pro/semi pro like this for many years and has been in backing bands for known artists yet still couldn't afford to be my neighbour, I was surprised to say the least.

[neepheid]

I am not confident enough in my performance, songwriting or interpersonal skills to be a "professional" musician. Simple really. Geography probably doesn't do me any favours, as well as my unwillingness to move or jeopardise a very cosy career in Higher Education IT, nor does the suspicion that even in my local environment I'm politely clearing my throat at best into a crowd of DIY punks who either do not welcome my existence or merely neglect to acknowledge it. Also, I'm pretty lazy and don't enjoy all the admin-y crap one has to do when in a band - promotion and annoying people about getting gigs when you wonder sometimes whether or not you even have the right to exist, never mind ask for a fee for playing. I played a gig on Friday where the venue does discounted drinks but I did not avail myself of the opportunity as I feel like such a tit for saying "I'm in the band", like I'm important or something. Sucks.

Basically, I fail on so many levels. I do enjoy playing and creating though. If I didn't enjoy the making of the music itself, and wasn't in a band where everyone gets along well, I don't think I'd bother at all.

I think we need a manager, because despite me doing the lion's share of all the crap I hate (poorly, I might add), it ain't me. Anyone want a sixth share of F all?

[cheddatom]

No wonder all the pros are so grumpy! [/troll]

[gjones]

A pro rate, with a 'name' musician (not mega famous), is about £350 per day + £50 per diems. But these days session guys are not touring 24/7. Guy Pratt had to turn to writing books and stand up comedy because the session work had dried up. But he recently did a tour with Brian ferry, so this months gas bill probably got paid.

[spectoremg]

So assuming that say Tony Levin's paid a retainer by Peter Gabriel how much do you think or know that's worth to him?

[JTUK]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1423077990' post='2680479']
So assuming that say Tony Levin's paid a retainer by Peter Gabriel how much do you think or know that's worth to him?
[/quote]

Don't know but I think someone for a good name act ..who had 5 very good hot years.. got £30k a year to sit and wait around.

[acidbass]

It all depends on the terms of the management deal. I remember a few years ago, when Snow Patrol were slowly becoming a household name with 'Chasing Cars'. The members of the band were only getting paid £200 a gig each, although all expenses were covered from the moment they left their house to start the tour until the moment they returned. This included instrument costs, clothing etc (both of which were provided as part of endorsement deals) So, in essence they would earn £4k for a three week tour per man. Not bad really, plus royalty cheques every few months which inevitably only got bigger each time.

[JTUK]

The writers get the royalty cheques and £4k is good for 3 weeks but not if that is all you do for 6 months

[Old_Ben]

You'll find merch sales adding a nice chunk in their pockets too

[lojo]

I've always thought unless your doing some fairly big gigs with established artists that an average pro musician is a similar life to that of a tradesman , no promises , no sick pay etc.

[TheRev]

My band have recently been taken on by proper, pro level management, so I've slowly been getting some insight into what it actually takes to earn a living as a live act.
The answer is....it depends!
One of the bands on the managers books go out for about £3, 500 per night. Now, that's not a lot for a 'pro' band, but these guys do 80 gigs a year every year and rarely leave the south of England, so their costs are relatively low. A bit of rough maths points towards these guys earning 45-50K per year, pre tax. So not helicopters and sports cars rich, but very comfortable by most people's standards.
Another band on the roster only play about 30 gigs a year but charge 30K each time..... I don't know if they have helicopters, but when we've been to have a meeting with our manager, there are usually a couple of sports cars parked outside.

[Bassman Sam]

I've gigged with John Colhan of Status Que fame. He goes out as Coglan's Quo for a minimum of a grand a night plus expenses. We got 250 a head on a normal gig and on occasions double that.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Bassman Sam

[grandad]

Just read "TA-RA-RA-BOOM-DE-AY" by Simon Napier-Smith. I thoroughly recommend it.

As amateurs we may get to enjoy our music the most.

[uncle psychosis]

I don't think that the guys who make the notes come out the speakers have ever done particularly well out of the music industry. You need to be a songwriter of some sort to see the big bucks.

[blue]

This is a tough one I have 2 good friends both tour as side men with international veteran Stars. I have no idea what kind of money they make. I do know they are both a live still touring and neither has ever had to work a 9-5 traditional job in their life. They are both approaching age 65.

Blue

[lojo]

One of the jobbing pro musicians I spoke to in the last few years went on tour with a formally successful rock front mans new project, he told me he did quite well as the crowd peppered them with coins that he collected from round his drum kit.

[BobVbass]

One of my friends is a fairly well known concert pianist - he does solo tours around the UK and US, few times in Africa, has his own record deal, regularly gets invited along to Radio 4 to do live performances on Friday Night is Music night etc, is a member of various top philharmonic and symphony orchestras (royal, irish etc) even has his own festival in Seville every year.

He lives just down the road from me, same size house about the same size mortgage and while he's not skint he still has to supplement his professional career with teaching every evening. Saying that he's had a career spanning 40 years now quite happily doing something he adores.