Air and Presence - is it my ears?

[TorturedSaints]

Hi there,

I've done a first mix for the band I'm in - although I'm trying to place a 'chinese wall' between myself and the rest of the band when it comes to recording/mixing our latest songs. We are all over 50, and both the drummer and guitarist admit to hearing loss due to years of playing in loud environments. I always use ear plugs and have my hearing tested regularly for work and it's not too bad for my age (and my work isn't recording - I'm merely an amateur at that).

This first mix sounds reasonable to me, however both the guitarist and drummer say it needs more air/presence/treble, which I'm not convinced that the track needs, either for its vibe (chilled rock) or for any other reason. I've suggested that the overall tonality issue is something that could be addressed at the mastering stage, but I doubt whether we have the funds for a professional master.

So is it my ears being over sensitive to the top end of the frequency spectrum (could be a reason why I'm a bass player?) or not?

Here's the track: [url="https://soundcloud.com/pinthetailonthedonkey/rtdmixcandidate1/s-afAjp"]https://soundcloud.c...didate1/s-afAjp[/url]

What do you think?

Edited to make link work. (That's not my real band's sound cloud either, just a spare one I have).

Edited February 13, 2015 by RalphDWilson

[topo morto]

I get a a warning that it may be a 'private track' (I can see your other stuff at https://soundcloud.com/pinthetailonthedonkey/)

[TorturedSaints]

[quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1423828076' post='2689429']
I get a a warning that it may be a 'private track' (I can see your other stuff at [url="https://soundcloud.com/pinthetailonthedonkey/"]https://soundcloud.c...ailonthedonkey/[/url])
[/quote]

Thanks Topo, should be sorted now - it's a sound cloud account I have for random stuff, so it's not that band on there lol. Let me know if you still can't see it. Sorry.

Edited February 13, 2015 by RalphDWilson

[topo morto]

I would say it seems basically fine, though in places there is perhaps a bit more space for some of the other instruments 'above and beyond' the vocal, e.g. where it might need a lift in the chorus. I also got the impression of it being a bit dynamically squashed which might not help.

If I were being paid to nit-pick I thought I spotted a few timing / tuning / phrasing issues that I would probably look at before worrying about the mix.

I'm not sure the vocal mix quite works with the style of delivery - it's mixed quite upfront, whereas the delivery is a bit 'mysterious' and could maybe do with some tastefully-done effects? (Your singer reminds me a bit of bjork so I wonder if there might be something in any of her mixes you can copy)

Anyway I enjoyed the track, all meant constructively, etc!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='RalphDWilson' timestamp='1423827357' post='2689419']...
What do you think?...
[/quote]

Disclaimer: I'm exactly like your buddies, with acute hearing reduction in the upper frequencies (old age, mostly...).
This should not be any more than a glass ceiling for mixing (well, at amateur level, at least...). The trick..? Comparative listening. Take a couple of 'similar' tracks from the world of music, and compare your mix to theirs. I hear 'Sade' in the track you've put up, and compared the mix to 'Smooth Operator' and 'The Sweetest Taboo'. OK, I was using Youtube versions as a reference, it would be best to go from the CD version, played over the same monitors and headset as your mixing environment. Doing that, I'd say that 'Yes, your mix lacks air', but that may not solely be down to overall frequency selection, and wouldn't count on mastering to rectify this. It's a good track, easy enough listening, and, in general, well played. I would take a knife to the arrangement, however, and radically change the 'wash' of synth/keys in there, which (to me; it's a matter of taste, that's all...) smother most of the detail. The cymbals (HH, splash...) are particularly lacking (they produce no effect, even when they're detected...), and I found the drums to be very unclear generally (not badly played, just buried...). The main vocal could be treated in several ways, depending on whether you're going for 'intimate', 'natural', 'in your face' or 'Barbara Streisand' (other stars are available...) 'presence' for the track.
I'd agree, then, with your band mates; maybe for different reasons (or maybe not..!). If that's your first attempt, I'd say 'Bravo', and encourage you to use other folks mixes (you choose your references; I've just suggested a couple. Yours will very likely be different...) in order to judge in an 'absolute' way whether they cut the mustard or need 'tweaking'.
Hope this helps.

[url="http://youtu.be/kcPc18SG6uA"]Sade, The Sweetest Taboo...[/url]

[url="http://youtu.be/4TYv2PhG89A"]Sade, Smooth Operator...[/url]

Edited February 13, 2015 by Dad3353

[TorturedSaints]

Thanks for yout time, ears and comments. Much appreciated. Your replies illustrate one of my quandaries - who do I reference against, Bjork or Sade (or Siouxsie or Def Leppard -other things we have been compared to!). Let's face it, we don't even know who we sound like - the drummer suggested a Guillemots track or a Mercury Rev track! All good fun. Anyway, I'll go away and reference some more.

All the best

Ralph

[Skol303]

[quote name='RalphDWilson' timestamp='1423827357' post='2689419']
...both the guitarist and drummer say it needs more air/presence/treble, which I'm not convinced that the track needs, either for its vibe (chilled rock) or for any other reason.[/quote]

You're right. It doesn't need a treble boost, not to my ears anyway.

If you [i]are[/i] going to tweak the treble, I find that a good place to start if you want "air and presence" is 12kHz.

[TorturedSaints]

There's a remix in progress, having listened to a few other tracks. I've also bought MCompare plugin which was recommended on here, so I can A/B against various tracks without the level change giving a different perspective. I've also taken Dad3353's advice and removed one of the keys parts (although it was the reverse reverb piano part, which was the drummer's idea, so that might not go down too well lol). I will post a link here when I'm happy with it again.

I'm also thinking that there's a 3 minute song in there struggling to get out (but again, as the drummer wrote the song, he might not like that either.) The joys of bands.

I did throw my toys out of the cot the other day and asked, since they were expecting professional results, what was the budget for professional mixing? (Answer: £0) I also said that whilst I have read a few books on mixing, I haven't had any training and that I'd also read some books on brain surgery, does that make me a brain surgeon? To be honest, the amount of hassle I'm getting and the time I'm spending on it, plus the mixed reviews (thanks Skol for the words of support) make me wish I'd taken up another hobby.

That's probably just the frustration talking as I actually enjoy mixing.