Walk on by - The Stranglers bass tone

[ambient]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1424536075' post='2697444']
so we're wasting our money by buying say an MIA precision over a Squire affinity or there's no difference in sound between a precision and a Jazz or a Stingray? or have I misunderstood your post?
edit, btw we're going way off topic here
[/quote]

What he's trying to say (I think), is that if you play a song using a Stingray, then swap and play the same song on a Jazz. You'll sound like you, playing either a Jazz or a Stingray. Either way, you'll sound like you.

There's a lot more to getting someone's sound, than just going out and buying the same gear.

You need to look at how they played, and what.

You can (and lots of guys have), go out and buy exactly the same gear as someone you like, and still not sound anything like the person you were trying to emulate. See my earlier post where I stay that 2 guys can play exactly the same bass, and sound completely different.

Try it next time at a gig or rehearsal, give your bass to another play, and have them play something on it.

If I wanted to emulate someones sound, then I'd sit down and maybe watch them play on Youtube, see where they play, and how hard they attack, finger style or pick etc. Then use what I've got to try and get close.

I've just actually taken on a new student, he's really into The Stranglers, so I need to check out some of Burnell's playing over the weekend, so I've got something to work on with him.

Edited February 21, 2015 by ambient

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1424536397' post='2697452']
What he's trying to say (I think), is that if you play a song using a Stingray, then swap and play the same song on a Jazz. You'll sound like you, playing either a Jazz or a Stingray. Either way, you'll sound like you.

There's a lot more to getting someone's sound, than just going out and buying the same gear.

You need to look at how they played, and what.

You can (and lots of guys have), go out and buy exactly the same gear as someone you like, and still not sound anything like the person you were trying to emulate. See my earlier post where I stay that 2 guys can play exactly the same bass, and sound completely different.

Try it next time at a gig or rehearsal, give your bass to another play, and have them play something on it.

If I wanted to emulate someones sound, then I'd sit down and maybe watch them play on Youtube, see where they play, and how hard they attack, finger style or pick etc. Then use what I've got to try and get close.

I've just actually taken on a new student, he's really into The Stranglers, so I need to check out some of Burnell's playing over the weekend, so I've got something to work on with him.
[/quote]right, if that's what he meant fair enough, perhaps something was lost in the translation from our American cousin lol, if you substitute 'playing style' for 'tone' it would make more sense, i.e. my playing style will be the same whatever bass I play.
as for Burnell's 'tone' you need to play with a nice thick pick as a starting point IMO

Edited February 21, 2015 by PaulWarning

[ambient]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1424538664' post='2697490']
right, if that's what he meant fair enough, perhaps something was lost in the translation from our American cousin lol, if you substitute 'playing style' for 'tone' it would make more sense, i.e. my playing style will be the same whatever bass I play.
as for Burnell's 'tone' you need to play with a nice thick pick as a starting point IMO
[/quote]

Yeah, but I think individual players have a 'tone' of their own too. For instance, I'm very skinny, and have skinny fingers, I play only finger style, and have a light touch. My inherent 'tone' won't be the same as someone who weighs 16 stone, and has sausages for fingers .

I mean think of the number of guys who play, or the number of guys over the last 50 years, who have played a Fender Precision bass through an Ampeg rig. Do they all sound the same ?

No, they don't because part of their sound is them.

You can hear that it's a P bass, and you can maybe hear that it's played through an Ampeg, but then there's something else that's particular to them. That's their 'tone', and that's something that you need to study if you want to emulate their sound. It comes from where about on the instrument they play, how they play, all of the nuances and articulation in their playing.

[timmo]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1424539496' post='2697508']
Yeah, but I think individual players have a 'tone' of their own too. For instance, I'm very skinny, and have skinny fingers, I play only finger style, and have a light touch. My inherent 'tone' won't be the same as someone who weighs 16 stone, and has sausages for fingers .




[/quote]So the best way to change your tone is go on a diet?

[ambient]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1424546111' post='2697623']
So the best way to change your tone is go on a diet?
[/quote]

Well maybe I'm just talking crap .

But think about it for a moment. Tap on a desk or table with your finger, and experiment using different parts of your fingertip, move from the point to the flat pad, and see how the sound changes, it's going to be the same on a string.

Edited February 21, 2015 by ambient

[Lozz196]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1424546111' post='2697623']
So the best way to change your tone is go on a diet?
[/quote]

It`s got to be cheaper than buying a new amp.

[Jazzneck]

That's me out of a Stranglers tribute band then.
16 stone, sausage fingers and I can't play with a pick.
In the words of the wonderful Peter Green,

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]"I can't help about the shape I'm in[/center][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]I can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin[/center][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]But don't ask me what I think of you[/center][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]I might not give the answer that you want me to[/center][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3][center]Oh well"[/center][/size][/font][/color]

[timmo]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1424547584' post='2697641']
It`s got to be cheaper than buying a new amp.
[/quote] Buying a new amp is a lot easier

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1424539496' post='2697508']


Yeah, but I think individual players have a 'tone' of their own too. For instance, I'm very skinny, and have skinny fingers, I play only finger style, and have a light touch. My inherent 'tone' won't be the same as someone who weighs 16 stone, and has sausages for fingers .

I mean think of the number of guys who play, or the number of guys over the last 50 years, who have played a Fender Precision bass through an Ampeg rig. Do they all sound the same ?

No, they don't because part of their sound is them.

You can hear that it's a P bass, and you can maybe hear that it's played through an Ampeg, but then there's something else that's particular to them. That's their 'tone', and that's something that you need to study if you want to emulate their sound. It comes from where about on the instrument they play, how they play, all of the nuances and articulation in their playing.
[/quote]

I havd to say, I think the whole 'tone is in the fingers' argument is for thd most part utter bollocks. The playing style is, but the tone itself?

For example - give Chris Squire a Hofner violin bass with flatwounds through a vox amp. Would it sound like him? Not a jot. The reason being his preferred basses and complex amp system are what gets his sound. Not his fingers.

With regard to the Ampeg example above, of course all those players sound different. Countless variables in action. However if they all used the same amp setting and were recorded in the same studio with the same producer etc...

Edited February 21, 2015 by Cosmo Valdemar

[ambient]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1424551795' post='2697696']
I havd to say, I think the whole 'tone is in the fingers' argument is for thd most part utter bollocks. The playing style is, but the tone itself?

For example - give Chris Squire a Hofner violin bass with flatwounds through a vox amp. Would it sound like him? Not a jot. The reason being his preferred basses and complex amp system are what gets his sound. Not his fingers.

With regard to the Ampeg example above, of course all those players sound different. Countless variables in action. However if they all used the same amp setting and were recorded in the same studio with the same producer etc...
[/quote]

So if you picked up Chris Squire's bass at one of his gigs, and played one of his bass lines, would you sound like him ?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1424552456' post='2697704']


So if you picked up Chris Squire's bass at one of his gigs, and played one of his bass lines, would you sound like him ?
[/quote]

Within reason. If I started playing Yes songs with a pick I would be surprised if the overall noise was particularly different. If I started slapping (which I would never be able to do) then no.
If I played 'as myself' it would sound like me but with Chris Squire's tone.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Cosmo Valdemar

[PaulWarning]

I can see how different ways of playing would alter the tone, even pick players like myself can alter the tone depending on where we hit the strings, nearer the bridge will give a different tone to playing near the neck, but it's only one tool we use to get a different tone, to say you can get any tone you want just by changing the way you use your fingers is, as Cosmo Valdemar says, bollocks

[Musky]

Personally I think I the "tone is all in your fingers" line is hyperbole - it would be more accurate to say "much of the tone is in your fingers". I know that when the keyboard player in my last band picked up my bass, using the same pick and settings and even picking in the same place, it sounded very different to when I played it. He was much heavier with both his left and right hands, and for what it's worth also had much thicker fingers than me if that makes a difference. BTW, he was primarily a bass player.

It is of course possible to replicate another players style, and that will go a long way to replicating another player's tone. but I do believe that you'd also need equipment that is capable of getting that tone. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same equipment, but it should at least be able to get you into the ball park. No one's going to be getting JJB's tone without some kind of distortion going on, no matter what they do with their fingers, but similarly you're not going to sound like Steve Harris without digging in.

[miles'tone]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1424546111' post='2697623']
So the best way to change your tone is go on a diet?
[/quote]

Or eat more sausages.

[Spike Vincent]

Veering back on topic, there's another element to recreating the bass sound here, not only do you need a Precision ( not sure if this is the greenburst/ rosewood fingerboard or the black /maple fingerboard) with Rotosounds and a HiWatt 50w guitar head and a Marshall 2 x 15 and a Marshall 4 x 12 with knackered speakers, what you're hearing is the recorded sound, so you'll also need to recreate TW Studios in Fulham as it was in 1978, and get Martin Rushent and Alan Winstanley to tweak it. Or alternatively,just shove a Precision through a valve amp and crank the treble up.JJ Burnel's live sound was not the same as the recorded sound back then.

[rogerstodge]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1424609197' post='2698192']
Veering back on topic, there's another element to recreating the bass sound here, not only do you need a Precision ( not sure if this is the greenburst/ rosewood fingerboard or the black /maple fingerboard) with Rotosounds and a HiWatt 50w guitar head and a Marshall 2 x 15 and a Marshall 4 x 12 with knackered speakers, what you're hearing is the recorded sound, so you'll also need to recreate TW Studios in Fulham as it was in 1978, and get Martin Rushent and Alan Winstanley to tweak it. Or alternatively,just shove a Precision through a valve amp and crank the treble up.JJ Burnel's live sound was not the same as the recorded sound back then.
[/quote]sounds about right to me

[Spike Vincent]

Oh, and a touch of room ambience reverb and a whopping great compressor.
.

[lojo]

Will be sending a pic of the settings to the op soon (need to get on a PC can't do from phone)

It's all in the fingers has some truth, but there are singers who can impersonate , so surely many of us have the physical skill to do so, also aided by electronics we can manipulate . The results are of course going to vary but it's seems some of us like to tell others that emulation is impossible as our fingers aren't thiers.

[PaulWarning]

thing to remember about JJ's tone is it needs to be high in the mix with a lot of space round it otherwise it just gets lost, because it doesn't punch through, I've tried it, but our guitarist has a gutsy distorted tone and it just didn't work

[spongebob]

I just stuck some rounds on my P-bass, hit the vintage and bright settings on the Fender Rumble amp, and it sounded just like JJ!

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1424725391' post='2699772']
Glad you got the tone, Spongebob. I've only got a few comments in mind regarding JJ's tone.[list]
[*]He also didn't always play root notes. Take 'Something Better Change'. Both the bass and guitar are riding on F# for the first chord, but whilst the guitarist B maj the bass is riding on Eb. It sounds great and gives the song more energy.
[/list]
[/quote]

I love that bit in Something Better Change - and at the end when he swaps the Eb to the actual B, both give great dynamics/strength to the song.

[blue]

In support of tone is in your fingers and how you execute your bass line. The Chris Squire example was very good.

Here's another, if you picked up Larry Grahams bass played through his rig and started slapping, plucking and popping do you really think you would sound like Larry Graham. I'm sure Larry is doing things with his fingers I haven't mastered or even know how to do.

Blue

[timmo]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1424752349' post='2700012']


Here's another, if you picked up Larry Grahams bass played through his rig and started slapping, plucking and popping do you really think you would sound like Larry Graham. I'm sure Larry is doing things with his fingers I haven't mastered or even know how to do.

Blue
[/quote]Wouldn`t that be more technique than tone?

[ubit]

I don't know why someone can say a P bass doesn't have a sound. It's one of the most recognisable sounds there is. Ok, you can disguise it, but a P bass played clean through a system , is pretty easy to spot.

[blue]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1424758993' post='2700017']
Wouldn`t that be more technique than tone?
[/quote]

Maybe

Blue