Twincam Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Came across this while looking for answers why bass is better sounding when loud. It might explain also why, when i play loud i can't hear all the remaining overtones etc i find hard to mute. And why i hate the sound when playing through headphones. http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/Why%20Do%20Amps%20Sound%20Better%20When%20Loud.pdf So good excuse to practice loud . Quote
chrismuzz Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Funnily enough, I think that my playing sounds cleaner at lower volumes.. but in the mix it needs to be loud!!! Might ve something to do with my approach and view on modern metal bass tone though... I like it to sound aggressive and noisy, to counter how tight and restrictive the rest of the band are. Quote
ubit Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Louder as long as it's a quality sound. Loud bass through a poor system just sounds horrible. We've got magic subs now and what a difference they make! Quote
chris_b Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Loud is good (that's why I have 500w, 800w and 900w amps) and has its place but if you can't play well at low volume loud is going to sound pretty bad. Quote
mingsta Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I practice low volume, no effects with headphones. If you can get it to sound good like that, then playing live with all the trimmings is a doddle. Quote
leftybassman392 Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I didn't see it mentioned in the article but it's something called Equal Loudness Contour: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour[/url] Some years ago HiFi amps often had a 'loudness' switch that progressively boosted treble and bass as you lowered the overall volume. I have a sneaky feeling that guitar amp manufacturers experimented with them as well. You can probably still find them on some kit. Hope this helps. Quote
Twincam Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1424275169' post='2694650'] Loud is good (that's why I have 500w, 800w and 900w amps) and has its place but if you can't play well at low volume loud is going to sound pretty bad. [/quote] I think that volume hides a lot of unwanted frequencies (in bass at least) not in bad playing as such but ive found my muting is not the best and i have a heavy fretting technique. While i can play something nice its sometimes too noisy at low volume you can hear it coming through the amp more, on turning it up i definitely sound better. Maybe a good example is flea the louder he plays the better he sounds all the unwanted noise goes or changes. But that is his style. Certainly if you sound good and clean at low volume or even unamped then you will sound great when the amp is really cranked. Quote
Twincam Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1424276483' post='2694668'] I didn't see it mentioned in the article but it's something called Equal Loudness Contour: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour"]http://en.wikipedia....oudness_contour[/url] Some years ago HiFi amps often had a 'loudness' switch that progressively boosted treble and bass as you lowered the overall volume. I have a sneaky feeling that guitar amp manufacturers experimented with them as well. You can probably still find them on some kit. Hope this helps. [/quote] That's interesting. I would like to hear it in action, wonder what effect/practicality this would have in a bass amp, or in a guitar amp for that matter. And if it could make a comeback. Off to do more research... Quote
cheddatom Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 it's very evident when you're mixing a recording. If you don't mix loud enough, your mix will be too bassy Quote
bubinga5 Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 i used to know this guy who always listened to music really loud. i never could see or hear why. Quote
Dad3353 Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1424281046' post='2694719'] i used to know this guy who always listened to music really loud. i never could see or hear why. [/quote] That would be our fellow BCer, 'ambient', would it not..? [i](Sorry; just joshin'. No malice intended...[/i] [i])[/i] Edited February 18, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote
Raslee Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Reggae bass..,...best served loud & heavy Quote
Roger2611 Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 To quote Motorhead "Everything louder than everything else" I think the problem is we tend to use smaller amps with tiny speakers for practice, tiny speakers struggle to deliver much in the way of bass so quiet practice on a small amp will never deliver the balls of a big gig set up Quote
JTUK Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 [quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1424283875' post='2694758'] To quote Motorhead "[b]Everything louder than everything else[/b]" I think the problem is we tend to use smaller amps with tiny speakers for practice, tiny speakers struggle to deliver much in the way of bass so quiet practice on a small amp will never deliver the balls of a big gig set up [/quote] Wasn't that Ian Paice of Deep Purple, 'Made in Japan'..? Quote
Horizontalste Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1424271352' post='2694577'] Came across this while looking for answers why bass is better sounding when loud. It might explain also why, when i play loud i can't hear all the remaining overtones etc i find hard to mute. And why i hate the sound when playing through headphones. http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/Why%20Do%20Amps%20Sound%20Better%20When%20Loud.pdf So good excuse to practice loud . [/quote] If it were me dude I'd be practicing through headphones to hone my technique to minimise the unwanted noise, not masking it by playing loud. I guess it depends on what you expect from your playing, personally I love my sound through headphones. Quote
51m0n Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Fletcher Munson curves.... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves Quote
Skol303 Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 ALL MUSIC sounds better louder No, really. Here's some blurb on the subject, courtesy of Music Radar: http://m.musicradar.com/tuition/tech/why-do-we-like-our-music-loud-212790 Quote
cybertect Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1424276961' post='2694673'] That's interesting. I would like to hear it in action, wonder what effect/practicality this would have in a bass amp, or in a guitar amp for that matter. And if it could make a comeback. Off to do more research... [/quote] You won't have to look far. I believe the same thing is called 'scoop' in modern bass circles. My GK MB500 head has a 'Contour' knob that cuts the mids and boosts bass and treble. The popular Sansamp BDDI does much the same by default. Edited February 18, 2015 by cybertect Quote
barneyg42 Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1424284180' post='2694761'] Wasn't that Ian Paice of Deep Purple, 'Made in Japan'..? [/quote] "Everything Louder than Everything Else" Said by Ian Gillan before The Mule on Made in Japan and then a live album by Motörhead, Everything Louder than EVERYONE Else,title said to be inspired by this comment. Edited February 19, 2015 by barneyg42 Quote
paul_5 Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Fletcher & Munsen might have provided a scientific footing for why bass sounds better louder, but can they explain why a guitar sounds better the quieter it gets? I think not. Quote
Twincam Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 [quote name='cybertect' timestamp='1424293355' post='2694928'] You won't have to look far. I believe the same thing is called 'scoop' in modern bass circles. My GK MB500 head has a 'Contour' knob that cuts the mids and boosts bass and treble. The popular Sansamp BDDI does much the same by default. [/quote] Yes im aware of scoop, contour buttons but do they actively boost and cut depending on volume? ie boost bass,treble if you turn volume down, cut them and boost mids as you turn up the volume. As normally a contour button on most amps will just scoop at that level and it will remain a constant no matter what volume you have. Im also thinking an active contour would make small practice amps sound better? Quote
Twincam Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 [quote name='Horizontalste' timestamp='1424288604' post='2694844'] If it were me dude I'd be practicing through headphones to hone my technique to minimise the unwanted noise, not masking it by playing loud. I guess it depends on what you expect from your playing, personally I love my sound through headphones. [/quote] Yes of course this is the right way of doing things but some people sound crap at low volume ive heard many times turn up the volume and it comes alive. Also i think my headphones are not great at reproducing bass and can only function fairly quietly but all the other noise they do seem to amplify, they have refined my playing for sure especially recently but i don't think i will ever be one of these players who can make the instrument work at low volume. Although saying that some gentle compositions ive been working on sound fine. Quote
chris_b Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Turning up to "sound better" is just papering over the cracks. You should have more confidence in your ability to improve as a bass player. Quote
BigRedX Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 On the whole everything sounds better when it's louder - especially rock music. It's making it still sound good when it's quiet that is the true skill. Quote
cheddatom Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1424343365' post='2695280'] On the whole everything sounds better when it's louder - especially rock music. It's making it still sound good when it's quiet that is the true skill. [/quote] Hmmm, very interesting. One of my favourite sounding albums is Evil Empire by RATM. It sounds pretty average until you turn it up. I personally thought that was a good thing as it forced you to turn it up to hear it in all it's glory. Maybe not!? Edited February 19, 2015 by cheddatom Quote
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