DPA 4099 B

[henrywillard]

I had a DPA 4099B a couple of years ago and could never get on with it. I put it through my old preamp as it requires external power, but no matter what I tried, tweaked, re-positioned or altered, I could only get a relatively low-level output before horrendous feedback, ALL the time.

It was such a shame, as the actual sound was the best I have ever heard my bass amplified live, but I had to eventually sell it on as I could not deal with the feedback, and it helped fund my Radial pre-amp and Wilson K4.

I have since kept tabs on the DPA 4099, and it's still getting amazing reviews left, right & centre, still claiming it's the best thing since sliced bread, with absolutely zero feedback problems, which to be honest baffles me.

I think I asked the question on here 18-24 months ago, but I just wanted to ask around again and see what experience(s) those who own/have tried a DPA 4099B, have had.

Here's the big question - I am tempted to try one again and blend it with my Wilson through my pre-amp which has two powered XLR inputs with blending ability.
There is no way I can afford the £340 just to try one out again, as I know if it doesn't work out, I will not be able to recoup all of that selling it on, so would anyone who has a DPA 4099B be kind enough to loan it out for me to try? Big ask, I know, but I am very curious and keen to try one again, blended. (I'm based in Sevenoaks, west Kent).

Thanks everyone

[BassBod]

I've never been brave (or spendy) enough to try one...but from a lot of research the verdict seemed to be fantastic for front of house sound, but don't try and use it for stage monitoring...it only works in the very quietest of stage settings.

I heard one a few months ago (folky acoustic duo) and it was great, but I have no idea how much of the house sound was the Fishman pickup and how much was DPA.

If you get the chance to try to again, let us know how you get on?

[bassace]

I had two at different times and sold them both because I didn't always have access to front of house - at which the mic excels. Not at all advisable to use with back line. There are some considerably cheaper DPA clones about on eBay and other sources.

[TheG]

Hi Henry I use a DPA for front of house PA quite a lot. (Gypsy Jazz double bass playing with 2 acoustic guitars going through microphones). I don't have any back line so hear just what is coming back at me. When i first tried the mic it was as you mentioned low output but with feedback problems through back line and seemed unusable. I couldn't really work out why.

Then one day for some reason i wanted to go from the mic into something that was jack only. So I used my ART Tube MP preamp to go in on XLR and out on jack. All of a sudden the sound was much more usable higher output with less feedback problems into back line. I don't know exactly the science behind it but obviously the ART does what it says on the tin.

I know you say you used an old preamp but unsure of the differences between yours and my ART. Even with the higher output i still didn't find the whole thing feedback free but definitely better. It is a microphone after all.

Sound engineers do seem to like the sound of it they say. I have an EA Doubler and in the past have tried blending with good results but still quite fiddly to set up when playing in different sounding rooms needing to tweak eqs for 2 different sound sources mic/pickup and also balance between the two.

Hope that helps in any way at all?

[henrywillard]

Thanks, TheG!

Coincidentally the old pre-amp I used was an ART Tube MP too! I liked it, but I don't regret upgrading to my Radial Tonebone PZ-Pre, which is a beast of a pre-amp.
I'm sure one day I will try a DPA again. The sound it reproduced was quite magnificent and pure. I can imagine blending would be fiddly and a bit of a pain for those smaller gigs that are perhaps a bit cramped and rushed (we've all played those gigs, right?!), in which case I may just stick with the Wilson K4, but for bigger stages I would be tempted to give a Wilson/DPA blend a go.

Food for thought!
Always great to hear other people's experiences of gear. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply

Henry

[TheG]

In my limited experience a mic on the bass with a louder type of band, perhaps with drums, and with bass back line (usually) on the floor just behind is going to have feedback problems.

Saying that one of the best things I have seen was on the Smalls Jazz Club (jazz club in New York) live video feed which had drums in the band. This guy (Joe Sanders) had a normal sized mic on his bass on a microphone stand. This was then fed to a powered speaker on a tripod stand which was at his head height right next to him, (Im sure a preamp was involved somewhere). This meant that feedback was minimised as the mic and speaker weren't facing each other and a few feet distance between them. It also meant that he could hear himself as the speaker was by his head, the audience could hear the bass clearer (highs as well as lows) as it was higher up rather than on the ground and the volume needn't be as loud. So although I wasn't there to hear the actual sound in the club I really like the idea.

Also I think blending is fine if you've the time to set it up at each gig. Some people would want a quicker system to set up but if it gives you the right sound then its definitely worth taking the time. The DPA's are very expensive and I only bought one because one came up second hand and I took the opportunity at the time. When I [b]didn't[/b] use it initially to amplify live I did use it to record the band via portable multitrack so it was still useful.

[Gareth Hughes]

One thing to bear in mind - and this is after having gone through similar frustrations - is that we play stupidly loud in bars and clubs in this part of the world. This only dawned on me after seeing The Crusaders in The Blue Note in New York. I couldn't get over how quiet they were - I could hear the kit coming from the stage!! This then led to the realisation - "Ah, that's how an Acoustic Image combo can drive a 30 piece big band, they're not all deafening each other!!!"

So, back on topic - volume is not our friend hear. One cheap alternative (which I haven't gigged yet but have gotten nice results in the studio with) is the Thomann Ovid Systems mic. No reports on durability or feedback, etc, but it does it's job well. Here's a link:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_ovid_system_cc_100.htm?ref=prod_rel_270440_1

[Beer of the Bass]

I considered the Thomann Ovid mic for a while, though I was worried that it looked a bit flimsy. In the end I went for a simple cardioid small-diaphragm condenser mounted between the bridge feet with elastic hairbands. Mine is an AKG Perception 150. It works very well run through FOH in a setting with no (or minimal) drums, any other use is marginal.
I know a local ceilidh band who amplify most of their instruments with DPA mics. It sounds good, but they spend about half an hour notching out the feedback with graphic EQ racks each time they set up the PA!

Edited April 14, 2015 by Beer of the Bass

[TheG]

Not seen those before ([color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thomann Ovid[/font][/color]). Well worth trying at that price.

Yes I know a few bass players who swear by not using an amp even with drummers in a jazz club setting. I was speaking to one who said "if I use an amp the drummer will only get louder". I know plenty of drummers who wouldn't even consider this thought though and play loud regardless of whats going on. Catch 22 really.

Edited April 14, 2015 by TheG

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='TheG' timestamp='1429049377' post='2747532']
Yes I know a few bass players who swear by not using an amp even with drummers in a jazz club setting. I was speaking to one who said "if I use an amp the drummer will only get louder". I know plenty of drummers who wouldn't even consider this thought though and play loud regardless of whats going on. Catch 22 really.
[/quote]

I've tried that and it worked (almost, sort of), though I found that I was at the top end of my dynamic range the whole night while the drummer was coasting along gently. This is perhaps not the most enjoyable way to perform, and I'll be using a bit of amp if I do that gig again!
I wonder if this was easier in the days of heavy cymbals and calfskin heads, when the bass drum was used for accents rather than to keep time.

[TheG]

I have tried it as well although I struggled to hear myself. When put this to a couple of the people who don't use amps they say they don't need to hear exactly whet they are doing because they know that the sound being produced is fine. They did sound good from where I was sitting. Although I would still prefer bait of amplified sound like you Beer.

I did see Elvin Jones a few years ago with a bass player who used no amp just an AKG D112 straight into the PA. I couldn't hear him! Not over Elvin.

I saw Christian McBride last year at Band on The Wall. He had no amp just heard what he was hearing from what was coming out of the PA via an AMT S25B microphone mounted to the side of the bass. Maybe side fills but I didn't see any monitors around really. That was with acoustic piano and drums which weren't holding back.

[TheG]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I wonder if this was easier in the days of heavy cymbals and calfskin heads, when the bass drum was used for accents rather than to keep time.[/font][/color][/quote]


Actually I saw one of the bass players who doesn't use an amp twice with 2 different basses. The first time he had Spirocores on and the next time he had Velvet Anima strings on (synthetic gut). Interestingly I could hear him much better with the Spirocores (that was his own bass). I did speak to him about string choice and he said he had gone through a few different sets but has just decided to stick with the Spirocores and deal with them rather than trying loads out. Again he did sound good.

Drums are louder these days though.