Beer of the Bass Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1424718742' post='2699620'] Where dat? I can no BFM see. [/quote] The OP double-posted this on the amps & cabs forum (where Bill F commented) and a mod appears to have deleted the thread. Hopefully a kindly mod could merge the deleted thread with this one. If you were to guess that he was somewhat sceptical of the concept, you'd be barking up the right tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumple Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 [quote name='dieseldalziel' timestamp='1424718143' post='2699606'] I saw Matchbox 20 a few years ago & I believe they were using Bad Cat Black Cat plexi amp heads with plexiglass cabs...looked great from an audience point of view spot them at 1.20 in this vid: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uzQYmuxNwY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=6uzQYmuxNwY[/url] [/quote] I enjoyed that but forgot to look out for the amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1424719080' post='2699629'] The OP double-posted this on the amps & cabs forum (where Bill F commented) and a mod appears to have deleted the thread. [/quote] Ta, Skipper. I scrolled up and down [i]this[/i] thread several times thinking I was losing it. And - yes - I can imagine a certain [i]froideur[/i] towards the concept. Thing is, people, I don't get why entrepreneurial types don't join up in disguise and start stealth threads like 'What do you want from your next amp?' or 'How much would you pay for a 100w valve head?'. Handy research, I'd have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian_Enterprises Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 [quote name='NJE' timestamp='1424692378' post='2699130'] I like the concept, the lights and plexi glass is a fun look and I think there is a market that would jump on it. My comments are: [list] [*]From my knowledge Plexi is pretty heavy, how does it compare to say birch ply that comapnies like EBS use. Weight is a key factor for a lot of people [*]Whilst I personally like the lights and think it looks brilliant, I think you will exlude a lot of players and narrow your market. I would never get away with using one in my bands, I play in Soul/Funk bands and it just wouldnt look 'right' for the band. [*]Would you consider offering something like a smokey grey semi transparent plexi which would satisfy some of us more conservative folk? [*]The angles speaker idea is nice, I think it would work well. Will they all be angled or will you offer a 12" flat front and then one angled so you could stack them and have one facing forward and one angled on top which would be closer to ear height? [/list] Good luck, as I said its nice concept. [/quote] To address your questions, yes there is weight in polycarbonate, the setup will weigh between 17 and 23 kg and should be small enough to be portable. The lights will be remote controlled with a range of functions, but can be built without them. Yes for sure there would be a few colours of housing .. grey being one. The front on these portable models will be angled to project sound, on future models flat to allow stacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian_Enterprises Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1424727386' post='2699820'] Ta, Skipper. I scrolled up and down [i]this[/i] thread several times thinking I was losing it. And - yes - I can imagine a certain [i]froideur[/i] towards the concept. Thing is, people, I don't get why entrepreneurial types don't join up in disguise and start stealth threads like 'What do you want from your next amp?' or 'How much would you pay for a 100w valve head?'. Handy research, I'd have thought. [/quote] This is a uni project, and having amatuer musicians involved in the project, more info is required which is why i am here. focus groups have been done with bands and distributors prior to this. The concept is meant to design and engineer something different to whats available on the market. this basic concept wont be everyones cup of tea however, it can be ammended to appeal to a wider audience. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian_Enterprises Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1424693126' post='2699148'] I've actually discussed this design with the guys from a band I play with, so we will certainly watch with interest! The two main issues (outside of finding bands which the look will suit!) would be weight, and sound quality. Do you have and rough weights for the cabs, and how is the sound? Damping and so forth would be a little more complicated to deal with in a transparent design, although a black layer on the back panel might still give the light effect whilst keeping internal reflections down. There is of course the option to use them as dummy cabs for purely visual purposes. Colour me interested! [/quote] Thanks for discussing with your band , its still early stages as you can see, all i can say is the setup will weigh no more than 24kg (possible 20kg) and the sound range will be between 94db and 113db. if you have any other contacts then id welcome their thoughts too. What band are you in?? Edited February 23, 2015 by Caledonian_Enterprises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 What are those figures for - the 1x12? Presumably the SPL figures are 1w/1m with the higher one for the 4x10, although it seems to be a bit higher than I'd expect. I like the concept (and judging by the photos others have posted there are bands that like the idea too), but I can only really see two markets for this sort of product: Touring bands and home users. The touring bands will have their equipment roadcased and the roadies to shift it, and may well just be using for show with other monitoring options. It's also likely they'll already have a preference for the type of gear they're using. Home users would probably be happier using something much smaller and this really points towards a practice amp or small combo. So while I think the idea is good I think you're targeting the wrong market. You might find more purchase by offering a custom cabinet service for the touring musicians, building them to rehouse their amps/speakers, and/or building lower cost practice amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) This is roughly my original post that went in the 'disappearing' thread. Plexi-glass Poly(methyl methacrylate) has (along with other amorphous polymers) mechanical properties under high loads and low loads that you will need to factor into your design. A key issue will be crack formation at stress concentrators such as corners and holes under high loads (e.g. dropped on floor). Low stress (creep) from loads generated by the mass of the amplifier (transformers etc) and thermal shifts will also tend to induce crack formation at stress concentration sites. In addition to those mentioned earlier, this can also occur at milled / cut edges. PMMA is also prone to crazing (micro-cracks) that can lead to brittle failure. Brittle failure can be catastrophic and without warning. This has the potential for some interesting product liability issues. Another factor to account for is the effect of physical ageing on the material, typically the material becomes more brittle. The design and subsequent manufacture of a durable serviceable Plexi-glass head case has quite a few challenges due to the inherent material properties. I would have a conversation with the Materials Scientists at your Uni. Edited February 24, 2015 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratman Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think the photo looks fab. but in practise these cabs are going to sound appalling. We are bass players and we care about our sound. As a theoretical uni project maybe its worth pursuing, but put these ideas anywhere near the real world and there are issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 [quote name='Caledonian_Enterprises' timestamp='1424729086' post='2699859'] Thanks for discussing with your band , its still early stages as you can see, all i can say is the setup will weigh no more than 24kg (possible 20kg) and the sound range will be[b] between 94db and 113db[/b]. if you have any other contacts then id welcome their thoughts too. What band are you in?? [/quote] That's a hell of a wide range! It's almost like saying "it'll be kind of quiet compared to other cabs, or very loud, not sure yet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Maybe these amp/speaker cabs would be a better concept as a high $$ aquarium/terrarium for millionaire rockstars rather than attempting to make them function adequately as musical equipment - you might get away with making a guitar cab from perspex due to the frequency range guitar cabs operate in(and the general sh*tty standards of guitar cabs since forever), but making a functional bass cab is a whole different ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) - Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 [quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1424769766' post='2700115'] I play with a guy who uses one of the kick drums! He has the rest of the kit, but says it's just too big to bother with. It's had a psychedelic paint job and always draws comment- it also gets accused of sounding like a cardboard box, too! He's a great player though. [/quote] Aaahh, you must be referring to Ed. I like the sound of his bass drum. He was always promising to bring the rest of the kit but never did! +1 as a great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm playing with a drummer who uses a 70's Ludwig Vistalite kit. He also has the version that lights up! He says it cuts through better. It might do but it still sounds crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaRik Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 [quote name='dieseldalziel' timestamp='1424718143' post='2699606'] I saw Matchbox 20 a few years ago & I believe they were using Bad Cat Black Cat plexi amp heads with plexiglass cabs...looked great from an audience point of view spot them at 1.20 in this vid: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uzQYmuxNwY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=6uzQYmuxNwY[/url] [/quote] Didn't they have a plexi drum kit that tour as well? I remember speaking to their FoH engineer after the gig at Manchester who confirmed they were all dummy - the band were using a variety of off-stage mic'd small combos from Fender Twins to old Marshall 50w JCM 800 gear. Still looked ace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingraybassman Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I feel like someone should stick up for the OP a little bit here...... I'm guessing the design and prototyping of the Amp will be accompanied with a report/dissertation, half of the experience is finding the issues. This isn't a highly polished concept with sleek marketing and a huge R&D budget, this is someone trying to think outside the box (no pun intended), and do a project with some substance for university. A bit of open mindedness would help from everyone, he isn't going to harm anyone! (insert back related joke) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 [quote name='stingraybassman' timestamp='1424775286' post='2700224'] I feel like someone should stick up for the OP a little bit here...... I'm guessing the design and prototyping of the Amp will be accompanied with a report/dissertation, half of the experience is finding the issues. This isn't a highly polished concept with sleek marketing and a huge R&D budget, this is someone trying to think outside the box (no pun intended), and do a project with some substance for university. A bit of open mindedness would help from everyone, he isn't going to harm anyone! (insert back related joke) [/quote] Possibly, but a bit of realism as to the practicality and cost wouldn't go amiss, and may even improve the mark he gets. Otherwise the design project will be like that ridiculous solar powered window-mounted mains socket which did the rounds a couple of years ago - an attractive concept but with absolutely no regard to the feasibility. Drawing a box and labelling it "500 watt valve amplifier" seems rather meaningless if you can't reasonably demonstrate that a 500 watt valve amplifier could be built in the proposed box at the proposed cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingraybassman Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1424776433' post='2700242'] Possibly, but a bit of realism as to the practicality and cost wouldn't go amiss, and may even improve the mark he gets. Otherwise the design project will be like that ridiculous solar powered window-mounted mains socket which did the rounds a couple of years ago - an attractive concept but with absolutely no regard to the feasibility. Drawing a box and labelling it "500 watt valve amplifier" seems rather meaningless if you can't reasonably demonstrate that a 500 watt valve amplifier could be built in the proposed box at the proposed cost. [/quote] Agreed, but the way of passing that knowledge and realism on can come off a little condescending. Especially to a forum newcomer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 OP did say... [quote name='Caledonian_Enterprises' timestamp='1424728921' post='2699855'] ...focus groups have been done with bands and distributors prior to this... [/quote] So although it looks like it'll never be a viable proposition for most of us, clearly there's a market out there for it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It would be interesting to know if the DAD rig that I posted earlier in this thread was real or mainly for show. It might be worth the OP getting in touch with whoever designed/built it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Would it be feasible to incorporate some of the design into a more conventional cabinet? i.e. use more standard materials for the main part, including bracing & padding, etc., but then have nice plexi front panel with all the lighting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 A couple of points from me. 1. Is there a cover to protect the speaker cones? I think they're fairly likely to be damaged. 2. Angled fronts to cabinets will make stacking them problematic. Maybe constructing a frame from aluminium and then using plexi glass windows might be a better idea. You could then round the edges of the windows to reduce the likelihood of them fatiguing and the aluminium might strengthen against dropping while handling them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The most likely place it would end up is on a stage with a band using in ear monitors, don't tell everyone here as they think those big Ashdown amps like theirs are actually doing something other than looking pretty, if they were just for show any stage set designer could knock up a box with leds with a remote control colour change. Some prototypes to see how they sound would be the first task IMO, then iron out the weight and construction issues, a class D head and a light enough to carry cab version would be a better business proposition I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanx Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 My only prob with it is the size of it at the base. It's pretty much the footprint of a washing machine, nearly twice as deep as a lot of cabs. With the sizes of stage I play on, a few inches makes a lot of difference (snigger). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) - Edited February 22, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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