Darcy Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I cannot seem to work out why?? Help required. 1 A Trace Elliot Mk5 4x10 combo brought 2nd hand off a guy in Maldon Essex, who told me Mark Gooday who used to own Trace gave it to him and that it was a prototype 300watt version. Taken with a pinch of salt but @ £112.00 I wasnt gonna argue. So it is any where between 150 and 300 watt at 4 Ohms. I have gigged it as it stands (so output into 8 Ohms) and it KICKS. Not though the PA and against a miked kit and two loud guitar players it has never been set over 5 (clicks out of 20) and I have had complements about it. 2. A Ampeg SVT3 Pro and a Trace Elliot 4x10 (with a added tweeter). So the specs say 275 watts into 8 ohms. It seems to have no where the same power and it is running at 75% on the master to compete?? The Trace 4x10 is the green carpeted type and the previous owner added a tweeter that is always on and cuts glass. Where can the problem be?? Angry of Dunstable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 The position of the volume knobs tells you nothing about how much power the amp has left to give. If two amps are putting out the same power the one with the most midrangey sound will be loudest. Cab sensitivity matters more than amp power. TE 4x10" combos tend to sound very loud for their wattage because they have very little true bottom, tons of midrange, low Xmax high sensitivity speakers that rapidly compress and add extra overtones which increase apparent loudness. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 I've always found my SVT3pro really underwhelming at 8ohms. I don't even entertain the idea of running it like that in rehearsals now! I used to have a Trace 12 band SMX 4x10 combo, and that was monsterous on it's own, so it's not just you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='262677' date='Aug 14 2008, 08:10 PM']The position of the volume knobs tells you nothing about how much power the amp has left to give. If two amps are putting out the same power the one with the most midrangey sound will be loudest. Cab sensitivity matters more than amp power. TE 4x10" combos tend to sound very loud for their wattage because they have very little true bottom, tons of midrange, low Xmax high sensitivity speakers that rapidly compress and add extra overtones which increase apparent loudness. Alex[/quote] One man's compression, high midrange output , overtones and lack of bass is another man's "Cuts through the mix in a band scenario". I'd like to think that it was a conscious decision on the part of TE to voice their equipment thus, but really, I doubt it. Still, if it works... Otherwise, overall perceived volume is a virtually indecipherable mix of instrument, pre-amp sensitivity, frequency response and output coupled with power amp input sensitivity, the power amp's overall power and stability into a fluctuating modulus of impedance (with frequency), the cab's drivers, driver complement and array, overall sensitivity, the system's LF tuning.... (I've missed about 20 variables) ... Oh and where you put it in the room, how the room is furnished, how big it is.... AAAAGGGGHHH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcy Posted August 16, 2008 Author Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote name='mike257' post='263279' date='Aug 15 2008, 05:55 PM']I've always found my SVT3pro really underwhelming at 8ohms. I don't even entertain the idea of running it like that in rehearsals now! I used to have a Trace 12 band SMX 4x10 combo, and that was monsterous on it's own, so it's not just you!![/quote] Nice to know it's not just me Are you say the SVT is only at it's best into 4Ohms. So an extra 8Ohm cab or 1 4Ohm cab? I must admit I have a very mid heavy sound. SO would a Trace head be a better option? (anyone want to swap a SVT 3Pro for a nice Trace RAH 350/400???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='Darcy' post='263477' date='Aug 16 2008, 08:12 AM']Nice to know it's not just me Are you say the SVT is only at it's best into 4Ohms. So an extra 8Ohm cab or 1 4Ohm cab? I must admit I have a very mid heavy sound. SO would a Trace head be a better option? (anyone want to swap a SVT 3Pro for a nice Trace RAH 350/400???)[/quote] Well, for me, i'm usually playing with a severely loud rock drummer, and two guitarists with 4x12's and loudloudloud Marshall JCM heads, and I've struggled to get the performance I want out of the amp when I'm only running the one cab. It seems to come to life when I add the 15. I've got a pretty middy sound sometimes too, but the tone of the Ampeg is great. I find it 'growls' more than the Trace, which I remember being a lot cleaner sounding, but still very nice. I'd see if you can borrow a cab to try the SVT3 at 4ohms before you go getting rid of it, they are lovely sounding amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Why not just stick with the TE combo? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='264582' date='Aug 18 2008, 02:06 PM']Why not just stick with the TE combo? Alex[/quote] Ah, i've just read the thread again [i]properly[/i], and realised you already own both. Well, if you're happy with what the TE is doing for you, i'd agree with Alex and say stick with it. If it ain't broke.... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billynoband Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Yeah, stick with what works for you. I used a 60 watt transistor bass combo when we were teenage punks and it cut through the sound fantastic on stage with a very loud guitarist, just a good combination of speaker and efficient amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trace_n_bass Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I've owned a fair bit of Trace gear, and find that the early amps, particularly MkV and Series 6 hit their maximum power output at about volume 3 (if you have the gain around 7 or 8). If you hook the output onto a oscilloscope you see that once it hits this limit the increase in the volume control simply begins to clip the output signal - it still remains at the same level. Remember as well the MkVs has the Mitsubishi MOSFETs - far superior to most output stages around nowadays! They stopped making them around 1992, and Trace were forced in the Bi-polar Bear boards. If you really want to know the power output of the amp take it apart and check the power board. Almost all Traces have a sticker on them with the power output. Hope that helps! TnB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 [quote name='Trace_n_bass' post='266655' date='Aug 20 2008, 10:06 PM']I've owned a fair bit of Trace gear, and find that the early amps, particularly MkV and Series 6 hit their maximum power output at about volume 3 (if you have the gain around 7 or 8). If you hook the output onto a oscilloscope you see that once it hits this limit the increase in the volume control simply begins to clip the output signal - it still remains at the same level.[/quote] Aha - that's why people always say: "I never have it above 3 on the dial and it's f**king loud..." Must remember to pack an oscilloscope in the gig bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Some of the old Trace manuals even admit this fact that after about 4 on the volume you won't get any more volume, just clipping. I'm hankering after a Series 6 so badly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Merton' post='266829' date='Aug 21 2008, 09:14 AM']I'm hankering after a Series 6 so badly... [/quote] Someone's got the GAS... Edited August 21, 2008 by stingrayfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='266845' date='Aug 21 2008, 09:35 AM']Someone's got the GAS... [/quote] I always have GAS If I could, my flat would be full of basses and amps, but the Plate'n'Dishes would kill me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I love my SVT3 and it roars through a good 4ohm cab with no lack of power.... Through my Mesa Diesel 2x15 it shakes the room before it even gets to half volume! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Have you had it checked out , are the valves ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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