mcnach Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 [quote name='big rob' timestamp='1425472369' post='2707644'] Hi All, Looking for some advice really, i have been playing bass a long time and find that in practice and live i sometimes loose the bass in the mix. I have an RH450 and Rs210 and 2x12 cabs. Its not always an issues but even in the same practice room it seems to change from week to week. There 2 guitar players in the band and a drummer but is there any tips on how to set up the band in a practice room with a PA to get the best results and any amp settings i can look at to cut through, have boosted the mid but all seems to be getting muddy and definition seems to go. Would placing the amps in a certain way help and how do we level properly, sometimes it just sounds like the guitars are taking all my frequency, last nights sound with my stingray sounded really poor to me, I had brought the 2x10 to try and get things closer to the ears and thought i had hit the nail on the head then the next week i seem to be back to muddy and can hardly hear the bass (under half way on amp volume wise). Thanks for the help in advance Rob [/quote] Ask guitars to cut bottom end. That often helps. They often like a full sound that works great by themselves, but not so much in the mix. Hopefully that helps a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1425482711' post='2707795'] Cut nearly all the bass and you should be able to hear yourself better. You'll get a great tone and increase the headroom available to you since the amp isn't using all of it's energy pushing massive lows out of the speakers. Worth pointing out that the RH450 isn't a massively powerful amp anyway. I'm sure many people use them in two guitar bands but some bands are just louder! It could just be that you're struggling to be heard amongst the din of two guitarists and a loud drummer. [/quote] If you are not loud enough with a RH450 and two cabs.. in a PRACTICE ROOM... then I'd find another band. That would be insanely loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzodog Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1425496990' post='2707969'] If you are not loud enough with a RH450 and two cabs.. in a PRACTICE ROOM... then I'd find another band. That would be insanely loud. [/quote] Agreed I use 2 TC cabs all be it with a LH500 and its plenty loud enough for any gig. Your guitarists need to listen to the sound of the whole band and not just themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Do you want to keep playing with guitarists that don't listen to the music you're playing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Can you record the practise sessions and go over the captured result with your bandmates..? You should all be able to come to some agreement as to[list=1] [*]Is there a problem..? [*]Where does it originate from..? [*]How should it be fixed..? [/list] ...and take it from there. Record from a 'neutral' position (ie: not squarely in front of the bass cab, for instance..!) Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big rob Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Thanks again all for the advice, i think we as a band need to think about this and i think they will be open to it as we have been playing for some time. I think we have all just got used to come along plug in and go rather than thinking about it. It's time to use our brains and all these suggestions to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big rob Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Will update next week on the outcome, turn down tune in and play is my plan hope it works. Also one of the guitar players is leaving and i think that will help lol :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Do you have a two or three eq stingray? The two eq needs more effort to get in the mix ime, boosting the mids on the the eq works in most cases but cutting your bass and treble should have a similar effect without pushing the mid too much. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Fairly regularly have the 'get the f*** out of my frequencies' conversation with my guitarists. All in good fun and they realise that what sounds good solo isn't what works as a mix. It's tough though but my rig's way bigger than theirs so they know they lose if we start an arms race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big rob Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Pete i have the 3 eq stingray HH, any advice on how to eq this bad boy. Iain my rig is much larger than there silly combos also but i also want to retain my hearing for a little longer :-). I really am so glad that others are struggling with this. You try these things at home and they sound so wrong, but i suppose its taking the time to make it right in the mix that counts, otherwise gigs will get boring with just me in my front room and a little squashed. Thanks again all Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='big rob' timestamp='1425553311' post='2708454'] Pete i have the 3 eq stingray HH, any advice on how to eq this bad boy. Iain my rig is much larger than there silly combos also but i also want to retain my hearing for a little longer :-). I really am so glad that others are struggling with this. You try these things at home and they sound so wrong, but i suppose its taking the time to make it right in the mix that counts, otherwise gigs will get boring with just me in my front room and a little squashed. Thanks again all Rob [/quote] A MM bass can have a very powerful full sound as well, so you might not be immune from the overall mud argument either. If I was a gtr and was being told that my twin HB's were encroaching on a band mix, then I'd be thinking it a bit rich coming from someone using a MM...? There is a reason why P Basses and Jazzes are the workhorses they are across the industry..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1425555218' post='2708481'] There is a reason why P Basses and Jazzes are the workhorses they are across the industry..? [/quote] The industry is a very traditionalist one? P&J have probably been used the most compared to any other basses, perhaps purely because they got there first and grew fast. Now they self-perpetuate. They work and it's a sound people are familiar with. However, in 2015, a Stingray is not exactly the new kid on the block. Stingrays work too, and do it very well. There's a reason you can find a Stingray in any music genre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1425555850' post='2708493'] The industry is a very traditionalist one? P&J have probably been used the most compared to any other basses, perhaps purely because they got there first and grew fast. Now they self-perpetuate. They work and it's a sound people are familiar with. However, in 2015, a Stingray is not exactly the new kid on the block. Stingrays work too, and do it very well. There's a reason you can find a Stingray in any music genre [/quote] There is a very good reason why people use singles A LOT.. and by people who could could pretty much justify/afford any bass they care to choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 you can make any bass fit the sound of the band, the key is to work together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I'd back the volume right down, if you can get your drummer to play ball. It's amazing the detail you can hear when you're all quieter. Be prepared for the "I've got a valve amp, it's no good at low volumes...." argument, however... Steve Edited March 5, 2015 by Muppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big rob Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Thanks again all, I have been playing for a long time and have a few basses and have found my Bill Nash PB57 with added jazz in the bridge does cut well in the mix, however that said i have the HH stingray and can spilt the coils to a jazz configuration and this still at this time is not cutting through. I really think it's a volume down 15 minute chat that will get rid of the issue, i use no effects other than i little compression and with the advice here we should be sounding great once more soon. Some nights its spot on with just plugging in and go so we all need to work together. Cheers again all Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Not clear yet whether you've altered your own EQ settings Rob. What sounds awesome on it's own often becomes a mush in the overall mix. You'll find that cutting some bass and boosting your mids will bring your sound to life with the rest of the band (I hope). Pay no attention to how it sounds on its' own though because you'll go straight back to your usual settings. Give it a go - you might be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1425557321' post='2708522'] There is a very good reason why people use[b] singles[/b] A LOT.. and by people who could could pretty much justify/afford any bass they care to choose. [/quote] singles? Sorry, I'm a little lost now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='big rob' timestamp='1425561636' post='2708599'] Thanks again all, I have been playing for a long time and have a few basses and have found my Bill Nash PB57 with added jazz in the bridge does cut well in the mix, however that said i have the HH stingray and can spilt the coils to a jazz configuration and this still at this time is not cutting through. I really think it's a volume down 15 minute chat that will get rid of the issue, i use no effects other than i little compression and with the advice here we should be sounding great once more soon. Some nights its spot on with just plugging in and go so we all need to work together. Cheers again all Rob [/quote] yup,if it's too loud in the small room, turning down first sounds like a good move to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 My current gripe about playing with other people is that the kind of tone you need to cut through in a rock band isn't really a tone that I like. Grr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1425563265' post='2708630'] singles? Sorry, I'm a little lost now [/quote]Me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Point the guitar amps at the guitarists, at head height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 [quote name='big rob' timestamp='1425553311' post='2708454'] Pete i have the 3 eq stingray HH, any advice on how to eq this bad boy. Iain my rig is much larger than there silly combos also but i also want to retain my hearing for a little longer :-). I really am so glad that others are struggling with this. You try these things at home and they sound so wrong, but i suppose its taking the time to make it right in the mix that counts, otherwise gigs will get boring with just me in my front room and a little squashed. Thanks again all Rob [/quote] I use quite a bit of bass boost but I've had the luxury of sonic space most of my gigging life, either just one other guitar or mostly guitarist leaving enough room for everyone. In your setting then I'd try setting your amp as flat as possible, then the 3 EQ all on the centre indents, it should cut through at that ime but maybe sound thin, I then try either extra bass on the head or extra bass on the bass but rarely BOTH, once its fat enough without mush thats as good as you will get without the guitarists altering their sounds imo, after that I just alter the treble on the basd to suit slap, fingers , thumb or pick playing. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHW Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 If I'm struggling to hear myself, firsth thing I do is to take a few steps away from my cab- this often does the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Struggling to hear what tho... ? any bass at all..? If you think it sounds bad then, what do you think it will sound to the audience..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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