Fretbuzz help required!

[Bassjon]

So I recently took my bass to a well renowned set-up/repair guy who has years of experience and a good rep.

He handed me my bass back after a set up and it sounds great through an amp and the neck is perfectly straight. Yay! I thought. But unplugged it sounds horrible! Lots of frets from 1 -8 buzz terribly. I have wound the bridge saddles up a bit but am scared to go to far because I have no idea what Im doing! I dont want to take it back because a) He is an expert and knows what he's doing so I'd feel like a muppet. I dont want to cause any bad blood with the guy who thinks he has done a great job and c) It will mean booking my bass in and not having it for another few days.

So guys, can anyone tell me - is fret buzz and rattle acceptable unplugged? (its driving me mad!) If I decide to have a tweak myself which way should i turn the trussrod?

Thank you

Jon

[KiOgon]

Set ups & the way a bass plays is a very individual thing, what suits one player don't suit another etc.etc. Your 'expert' should know this better than anyone, if it's not right for you have a word with him, could say you should have said how you like the action - or he should have asked before he did the job.

[BassBus]

[quote name='Bassjon' timestamp='1425807993' post='2710805']

So guys, can anyone tell me - is fret buzz and rattle acceptable unplugged? (its driving me mad!)

[/quote]

No, fret buzz is not acceptable. I would take it back and explain the problem. You have paid money ( I expect) and you are not happy with it.

Raising the saddles will just make it more difficult to play. You said the neck is dead straight and fret buzz is at frets 1-8. You need to loosen the neck a little. If you look at the trus rod end the rule is generally lefty loosy, righty tighty. If you turn the trus rod probably only a quarter turn to the left then that will probably do it.

I would take it back and explain, though, as KiOgon said.

[HowieBass]

Sounds to me like the neck needs a tad more relief (loosening the truss rod maybe an 1/8th of a turn or so). A perfectly straight neck will cause fret buzz near the nut. You should be able to drop the saddles back down when you've got the right amount of relief dialled in - with a string held down at the first and last frets you should have about .012" gap at the 8th fret - this is the thickness of a business card (that's card not a plastic credit card which is a lot thicker).

[BassBus]

You can easily setup your own bass. Have a look on youtube as there are many videos on how to go about it and what tools you will need.

[Bassjon]

Thank you all, you've put my mind at rest. I will try putting a tiny bit of relief in the neck but phone him tomorrow and kindly ask if he will tweak it.

[Bassjon]

tried it. it was a disaster! I loosened off the strings, turned the truss rod left a tiny bit. Nothing happened so I did it again and now it sounds worse. all that happened was now the open strings buzz aswell! I'm pretty sure this whole guitar set up thing is a myth as Ive never had any luck with it.....!

[Grangur]

with most modern basses you don't need to loosen/de-tune the strings before adjusting the truss rod. In any case you were loosening the truss rod; so releasing the tension on the neck/strings.

I would certainly take it back to your "expert" or follow the process in this series of videos.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=te44eWXd9pc#

[3below]

Youtube is your friend. Warwick have an excellent series of bass setup videos. A set of vernier calipers or feeler gauges are useful. String height is an individual preference, Warwick suggest 2mm at 12th fret (if my memory serves me). Way to low for my playing style.

[Bassjon]

brill - i'll take a look!

[Twincam]

Here is an easy way to set up a bass, with household tools that should give you a very playable bass and a pretty standard setup.
Tools need are a 4mm allen key, a 2.5 mm allen key and a 2mm allen key. Also a small allen key for the bridge saddle adjustment. Finally a standard business card like the ones from a taxi company not a plastic credit card etc they are too thick.

Of course if you can invest in the correct tools but this method is fine for getting a bass in playing condition, for someone with limited tools.

First tune your bass normally then fret at the first fret and then with your elbow of your right arm hold down the e string on the last fret. This is so you can check the relief of the neck, place the business card corner first in between the 7th fret of the E string while its still held down at the first and last fret. It should slide in nicely if it doesn't fit in as the gap is too small then the neck is too straight and needs more relief, if it fits in but there is also a gap the neck has too much relief (too bent). the card should just fit in there nicely maybe a very slight drag.
Business cards tend to be around .010 - .015" in size which is around about the average in most factory specs for relief. If you tighten the truss rod turning it right it will make the gap smaller, left for increasing the gap. This is of course while your looking at the nut right on if your holding the bass tightening looks like your going left and vice versa!. Assuming the truss rod access is in the headstock.
Ok so turn the allen key small turns at a time, then check the relief as above, remember each time you tighten or loosen the truss rod you must put the A string back and re tune all the strings so you get an accurate reading of the relief. Its time consumming and can sometimes be a pain in the bum but has to be done right.

Once you have the relief set, then we adjust the bridge saddle to alter the final string action (height).

There are a two different areas to measure the string height at the 12th and 17th fret i suggest if you play hard we go for the measurements at the 12th if you play lighter the 17th fret. There is also of course the fact nearly everyone likes a different string height but, 2.5mm - 2mm is about standard. To measure the height get your 2.5mm allen key and i will assume you have chosen to measure from the 12th fret. and without fretting the string measure the height of the E string from top of the fret to the bottom, and adjust at the bridge saddle so again the allen key slides nicely in and out with very slight drag. Make sure the bridge saddle is level it does not need to be angled, also while taking measurements make sure the bass is in relativly the same position you play, as necks move slights amounts at different angles. Ok So once the E is at 2.5mm you can set the A, D and G in this way the final G string should be 2mm. So maybe E and A could be 2.5mm and D and G 2mm in height from the top if the 12th fret to the bottom of the string.
And again after every single small movement of the strings you make at the bridge every time before the height is rechecked it need to be put back into tune.

The bass other than now needing to be intonated should be in very reasonable playing condition. If you dont have a 2.5mm allen key a 3/32" one gives you about 2.4mm. Feel free to set the string height higher or lower, but using allen keys or even drill bits do a good job of measurements. 4mm is the heights action that could be considered playable, under 2mm is low but the lower you go the more buzzing you might get if you hit the strings hard.

Buzzing from frets 1 to 7 indicate too little relief, buzzing in the higher frets indicate to low an action, buzzing all over might indicate just that your playing too hard for the setup.

I could write a full on essay about various other set up problems and remedies. Watch setup videos, read my little guide and hopefully it will all make sense. Hope what ive written helps.

[Funky Dunky]

Twincam, that's an excellent post, one of the most comprehensive yet easy to understand guides to adjusting action I have seen. That should be stickied at the top of the page and left there for all to see as I'm sure dozens of us would benefit from it.

[Funky Dunky]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1425869423']

Buzzing from frets 1 to 7 indicate too little relief, buzzing in the higher frets indicate to low an action, buzzing all over might indicate just that your playing too hard for the setup.
[/quote]

Would buzzing in the higher frets be eliminated by giving the saddles a wee tweak to raise the action?

[hamfist]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1425869423' post='2711689']
Here is an easy way to set up a bass, with household tools that should give you a very playable bass and a pretty standard setup.
Tools need are a 4mm allen key, a 2.5 mm allen key and a 2mm allen key. Also a small allen key for the bridge saddle adjustment. Finally a standard business card like the ones from a taxi company not a plastic credit card etc they are too thick.

Of course if you can invest in the correct tools but this method is fine for getting a bass in playing condition, for someone with limited tools.

First tune your bass normally then fret at the first fret and then with your elbow of your right arm hold down the e string on the last fret. This is so you can check the relief of the neck, place the business card corner first in between the 7th fret of the E string while its still held down at the first and last fret. It should slide in nicely if it doesn't fit in as the gap is too small then the neck is too straight and needs more relief, if it fits in but there is also a gap the neck has too much relief (too bent). the card should just fit in there nicely maybe a very slight drag.
Business cards tend to be around .010 - .015" in size which is around about the average in most factory specs for relief. If you tighten the truss rod turning it right it will make the gap smaller, left for increasing the gap. This is of course while your looking at the nut right on if your holding the bass tightening looks like your going left and vice versa!. Assuming the truss rod access is in the headstock.
Ok so turn the allen key small turns at a time, then check the relief as above, remember each time you tighten or loosen the truss rod you must put the A string back and re tune all the strings so you get an accurate reading of the relief. Its time consumming and can sometimes be a pain in the bum but has to be done right.

Once you have the relief set, then we adjust the bridge saddle to alter the final string action (height).

There are a two different areas to measure the string height at the 12th and 17th fret i suggest if you play hard we go for the measurements at the 12th if you play lighter the 17th fret. There is also of course the fact nearly everyone likes a different string height but, 2.5mm - 2mm is about standard. To measure the height get your 2.5mm allen key and i will assume you have chosen to measure from the 12th fret. and without fretting the string measure the height of the E string from top of the fret to the bottom, and adjust at the bridge saddle so again the allen key slides nicely in and out with very slight drag. Make sure the bridge saddle is level it does not need to be angled, also while taking measurements make sure the bass is in relativly the same position you play, as necks move slights amounts at different angles. Ok So once the E is at 2.5mm you can set the A, D and G in this way the final G string should be 2mm. So maybe E and A could be 2.5mm and D and G 2mm in height from the top if the 12th fret to the bottom of the string.
And again after every single small movement of the strings you make at the bridge every time before the height is rechecked it need to be put back into tune.

The bass other than now needing to be intonated should be in very reasonable playing condition. If you dont have a 2.5mm allen key a 3/32" one gives you about 2.4mm. Feel free to set the string height higher or lower, but using allen keys or even drill bits do a good job of measurements. 4mm is the heights action that could be considered playable, under 2mm is low but the lower you go the more buzzing you might get if you hit the strings hard.

Buzzing from frets 1 to 7 indicate too little relief, buzzing in the higher frets indicate to low an action, buzzing all over might indicate just that your playing too hard for the setup.

I could write a full on essay about various other set up problems and remedies. Watch setup videos, read my little guide and hopefully it will all make sense. Hope what ive written helps.
[/quote]

Good job. Nicely explained.

[Bassjon]

Yeah thats great - thank you sir! I owe you a pint : )

I ended up taking it to a competitor of his who saw I had a slight twist in the neck which hadn't been accounted for. He tweaked it and now it feels great to play. Happy again but thank you all for your support

[Twincam]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1426114516' post='2714709']
Would buzzing in the higher frets be eliminated by giving the saddles a wee tweak to raise the action?
[/quote]

Yes.
Or playing with a lighter touch or playing with higher tension strings (even set at the same action etc due to less vibration arc) higher tension strings are typically but not always bigger gauges of roundwounds and most gauges of flatwounds are higher tension.
Also remembering buzzing can be a high fret.
To confuse the situation more you can even get buzz between the nut and a fretted note (back buzz), while this won't come through the amp it can sound horrible to the player, Caused by too low a nut or a high fret in the lower to mid region and even too little relief.

There is a fine art to setup for sure but as my prior post says you should be able to set up any bass, with a few non specialist household tools to a fairly good standard that would satisfy most players and styles. Assuming the nut and frets are in relatively good condition. Although a high nut can be altered with a set of roundwound strings as well as any nut file.

I might do a picture series or video that will enable nearly anyone too check the initial setup of there instrument record it and if needed identify problems. Then if needed setup there bass or guitar even. Also to correctly check and cut a high nut all to a very good standard with just tools nearly every house has.
Although i strongly recommend buying the correct tools and if unsure going to a luthier if you identify other issues which need a specialist.

I hate the thought of people buying an instrument and being left with something hard to play or in lots of cases unplayable out the box and not knowing what to do. And being disappointed or worse put off playing.

My girlfriend says i shouldn't show people especially if in the near future i want to make money from setup work lol.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Twincam

[Funky Dunky]

I, for one, would really appreciate a guide with pics or videos. I have a Sterling Sub Ray 4 and I'm having a terrible time getting the setup to where I'm happy. I've tightened the truss about a half turn and lowered the sadlles and still the action is around 2.5mm on the bass side but with buzz after the 12th fret. I want the action a bit lower than that but it would leave me with frankly horrendous buzz above the 9th fret. I'm afraid to tighten the truss any more than I already have - there is a distinct curve of the fretboard as is, and while the answer is clearly to have a pro do it, I don't have £65 (not including strings, mind) to splash out, so I'm restricted to making wee adjustments myself with info from good people like yourself. I play a mixture of fingerstyle and slap and I'm pretty new to bass. I've spent this money on a new bass and I want to be able to play it so it is a little frustrating. I think some nut filing might be required but as I said I"m loathe to tighten the truss any more.

[Funky Dunky]

There is a chance that there is a high fret somewhere or Inow have too little relief. I guess every instrument has its limits in terms of how much you can do with the setup. But I certainly don't feel the action is especially low. It's not as low my Squier's, and that doesn't buzz.

[3below]

Twincam's explanation is excellent. One other issue that can be present is incorrect nut height - usually in cheaper basses. Warwick suggest that there should be 0.3mm clearance (business card thickness - card not plastic) between the string and first fret. If this is drastically out then the rest of a setup will be affected. Plenty of info on internet about nut height.

[3below]

Funky Dunky - where are you based? You might get lucky with someone offering to have a look at your bass for you. I can not stress how impressed I was with the Warwick videos on you-tube. I have played bass for 45+ years and always done own set-ups. I now do better setups after seeing these videos. Did my SG bass when I had it from fellow BCer. I was happy enough. Watched the Warwick videos (so I could sort my W basses out) then applied method to Gibson. Result - much better setup.

[Funky Dunky]

I'm in Beith, which is about 16 miles south-west of Glasgow.

Warwick videos, you say? I'll be checking those out post haste! Thanks :-)

Edited March 14, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[Funky Dunky]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yzsSUqZ.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1wfAxIX.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/H5Vnp9L.jpg[/IMG]


I feel that action is still crazily high. Not a joy to play. And even at that, ai need a really light touch above the 12th fret to avoid buzz.

[HowieBass]

@Funky Dunky - looking at the photos of your bass I'm guessing that there's a lot more relief than there ought to be, the action seems incredibly high. Getting fret buzz at the higher frets would support my assumption. When tightening a truss rod it helps if you can straighten the neck a bit by hand - don't assume the truss rod nut alone can exert all the force needed (and remember that tightening the truss rod nut reduces neck relief, taking out some curvature, making it straighter). If you're worried that you're putting too much strain on a truss rod then it might be safer to take it to a luthier. HTH

[Funky Dunky]

So would you recommend tightening it further to remedy the high action? Or do you think it looks like it needs a luthier's touch? Did I screw up?

[BassBus]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1425869423' post='2711689']

First tune your bass normally then fret at the first fret and then with your elbow of your right arm hold down the e string on the last fret.

[/quote]

Just had a read through Twincam's post. Above bit is not the best advice. On any bass the string should be held down where the neck joins the body. That is where the neck relief starts, not at the last fret. On a Fender there are five more frets after the neck joins the body. Holding down at the last fret will give you a false reading.

What height is your nut Funky Dunky. That's the first thing that needs to be checked before anything else. Until that is right you'll never get anything else right. Then neck relief, then saddle height, then intonation.

Edited March 14, 2015 by BassBus