phil.c60 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The answer is quite simple: just play in rubber gloves and wellies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthevan Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I get your points about the genny being chucked on the truck with a jump lead connecting it to the chassis as an earth, but it will be done properly if it could be someone gets fried! You've given me some ideas of who to speak to now, know some decent sparkies and auto electricians so will fire some questions at them, original question was just to see if anyone had done it in the past with success :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='danthevan' timestamp='1425995550' post='2713185'] I get your points about the genny being chucked on the truck with a jump lead connecting it to the chassis as an earth, but it will be done properly if it could be someone gets fried! You've given me some ideas of who to speak to now, know some decent sparkies and auto electricians so will fire some questions at them, original question was just to see if anyone had done it in the past with success :-) [/quote] Those who did it without success are unfortunately no longer around to tell us what went wrong. Still, that's Darwin for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 How many amps will your gear need, is it a full band ? that will have to be some genny if it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthevan Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 3 small amps and pa / powered speaker for vocals. Mine is a little TC head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='amnesia' timestamp='1425992951' post='2713134'] Charic - wireless is fine until you touch your amp to check why its gone off. [/quote] Ah for which case we have this for sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I suppose the upside is if its a popular event, it will be on liveleak if it goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A lot of overthinking going on. PAT your gear. Use an RCD. Jobs a good 'un. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 What will the RCD measure against ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1425997556' post='2713217'] Ah for which case we have this for sale [/quote] Nice sales pitch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1426007494' post='2713366'] What will the RCD measure against ? [/quote] The flatbed chassis / generator 'earth' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1426007494' post='2713366'] What will the RCD measure against ? [/quote] It detects an imbalance between the live and the neutral. Any fault where a metallic amp case could become live. Equipotential bonding is just not practical or necessary in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='danthevan' timestamp='1425993233' post='2713143'] Cheers guys. So generator is ok as long as earthed (bonded to truck), and if anything stops working, get the [s]drummer[/s] guitarist (they're easier to replace) to touch it before you do. Sorted [/quote] Fixed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='amnesia' timestamp='1426010158' post='2713405'] The flatbed chassis / generator 'earth' [/quote] No. It doesn't detect current flowing 'back through earth'. It detects an imbalance between what is going out and what is coming back. If there is a difference then it's going somewhere it shouldn't be. The flat bed will be wood so it'll be insulated. The only danger is the metal work of the truck that could in very rare circumstances become live. It can't act as an earth. Potentially everyone on the truck could become live but that's not a problem until they touch something outside the truck when they get down. It's such an unlikely event. Maybe the musicians will get on the truck then off again at the end of the performance. There are three amps. How long are they playing for? How long would it take to apply and check equipotential bonding to all the exposed metal work? Is this even required by the regs? Not unless it's practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1426010764' post='2713420'] No. It doesn't detect current flowing 'back through earth'. It detects an imbalance between what is going out and what is coming back. If there is a difference then it's going somewhere it shouldn't be. The flat bed will be wood so it'll be insulated. The only danger is the metal work of the truck that could in very rare circumstances become live. It can't act as an earth. Potentially everyone on the truck could become live but that's not a problem until they touch something outside the truck when they get down. It's such an unlikely event. Maybe the musicians will get on the truck then off again at the end of the performance. There are three amps. How long are they playing for? How long would it take to apply and check equipotential bonding to all the exposed metal work? Is this even required by the regs? Not unless it's practical. [/quote] I said about the imbalance measurement earlier. No body read it. I might have cried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='amnesia' timestamp='1426014738' post='2713490'] I said about the imbalance measurement earlier. No body read it. I might have cried. [/quote] I read it. I just didn't understand it. Going now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) One wonders how anyone ever gets to use a jenny, in any circumstances, without risking a fry-up..! Your biggest problem, by far, is going to be trying to stand upright if the lorry has to accelerate, brake or turn at all. A bit like a cross-channel ferry in February. Bracing yourselves will be all the more difficult with both hands occupied by the bass..! Even at slow, carnival procession, speeds, you'll get a surprise, so be prepared to lurch towards something solid, if there is such a thing on a carnival float. Accidentally leaning too far over the back can be a thrill, too. The step is rather high. I've played drums on trailers before, it's not easy keeping the cymbal stands in place., even on a 'still' trailer. I hate to think how it could work without lashing absolutely everything firmly to everything else. Never mind the 'lecky shock stuff; work out how to keep your balance..! I still say 'Mime'..! Edited March 10, 2015 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Like one of those fairground blokes who rode the waltzers hands in pockets looking hard as Red light spells danger played, Ubber cool ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='amnesia' timestamp='1426014738' post='2713490'] I said about the imbalance measurement earlier. No body read it. I might have cried. [/quote] I read it. Sorry I should have acknowledged it. Dad is right though. In Disneyland all the cast are strapped to poles during the light parade. Hopefully the poles are insulated considering all the power for the lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1426020200' post='2713577'] One wonders how anyone ever gets to use a jenny, in any circumstances, without risking a fry-up..! Your biggest problem, by far, is going to be trying to stand upright if the lorry has to accelerate, brake or turn at all. A bit like a cross-channel ferry in February. Bracing yourselves will be all the more difficult with both hands occupied by the bass..! Even at slow, carnival procession, speeds, you'll get a surprise, so be prepared to lurch towards something solid, if there is such a thing on a carnival float. Accidentally leaning too far over the back can be a thrill, too. The step is rather high. I've played drums on trailers before, it's not easy keeping thz cymbal stands in place., even on a 'still' trailer. I hate to think how it could work without lashing absolutely everything firmly to everything else. Never mind the 'mecky shock stuff; work out how to keep your balance..! I still say 'Mime'..! [/quote] I always have a full English before I use a Jenny....or any other girl for that matter. It's the only way I can find the energy, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 [quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1426021377' post='2713595'] I always have a full English before I use a Jenny....or any other girl for that matter. It's the only way I can find the energy, [/quote] Once you get her spinning she don't half go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Use an RCD protected socket(s) taken from the genset to power your gear. The earth cable in the RCD socket 3 core cable will be connected to the external metal and neutral of the genset. To get an electric shock you need to touch a 230V ac live part and for your body to provide a path for the current to flow back to the earth/neutral of the generator. In the unlikely (but possible) event of this happening, the RCD will sense the difference in current in the live and neutral and in milliseconds, trip the power supply at the preset value, probably 30mA. If the generator is sitting on the flatbed of the truck, there is little chance that the live output will make contact with the chassis of the truck. Make the best physical preparations to render this possibility negligible. I wouldn't bond the truck chassis to the generator earth myself. The chassis is the negative of the 24V DC truck battery. With todays use of electronics in all vehicles, there is too much risk of damage to the truck itself. Far safer to people and equipment to ensure that the 230v ac of the generator is isolated safely from the 24V dc of the truck. The risk of falling over and/or off the moving truck is far greater in my opinion. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Being electrocuted is the least of your worries, it's the thrown coins that I worry about. Boy do they hurt when they hit you. I've still got a dent in the neck of my bass from a 2p coin that just missed my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev b Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Along with a gypsy swing violinist I once played on the open top deck of a double decker bus whilst it was travelling around Skegness, I solved the problem of amplification by leaving my bass at home and bashing out chords on my acoustic guitar instead, job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 left thumbs Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hi dan. Have played on the back of a truck, with a generator, fortunately not moving. If the carnival has been going for some time, without killing anyone. I'm sure the people running it know what they are doing. If billy bodgit chucks it onboard 10 minutes before, and you all got electrocuted. Could he go to prison, Yes quite possibly, along with the organiser. I'm sure the least they will have, is barriers around edge to stop you falling off. The thing we found is the fumes from the generator, can get quite nauseous. Though it's possible it could have been worse, because we were stationary. It may well be that they will have generator screened off. Have a chat with the organiser beforehand, to see how it all works. If they want you to wear a harness, or something similar for example. It's better to know now, rather than 5 minutes before you start playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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