4-string-thing Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think I remember that George Harrison got clobbered because My Sweet Lord had 3 notes that sounded a bit like He's so Fine by Phil Spector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehappybunny Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Interesting the different approach taken by Robin Thicke (launch defensive legal case) and Sam Smith (apologise, hold hands up and agree a deal) I also seem to remember that George Harrison said that he could name the song/artist that inspired almost all of the Beatles songs. Seems like there is a fine line between plagarism and inspiration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigface Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1426072274' post='2713968'] The Joe Santriani/Coldplay suit seemed to be based on a chord progression. There's no distinctive melody there that I notice. IMHO the JS piece sounds completely generic, and I think it's very unfair for Coldplay to be found to be in breach of JS's copyright. [/quote] Not quite. A distinctive part of the Coldplay song's melody ('rule the world ...') is identical to phrases in the Satriani tune. In fairness it's only a little bit, so the judgement may or may not have been fair, but in both numbers the disputed phrases are a major part of the music. Edited March 11, 2015 by pigface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Anyone ever sued Led Zeppelin? I'm sure I've seen a youtube vid of about a dozen songs they've ripped off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziphoblat Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1426074161' post='2714014'] Anyone ever sued Led Zeppelin? I'm sure I've seen a youtube vid of about a dozen songs they've ripped off! [/quote] It is interesting. There are songs like this, where imho the similarity is tenuous, and then there are examples like Led Zeppelin where they've literally covered a song without giving appropriate credit/royalties and nothing's ever happened. I also wonder if Marvin Gaye had been alive today, he'd have taken this to court. I imagine that he'd have been far less inclined to do so than whoever inherited his estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 ^^^ as in a lot of legal cases, the side with the best lawyer wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1426053539' post='2713769'] Hot on the heels of the decision in favour of Jeff Lynne and Tom Petty, re Sam Smith's track, another expensive day out in court, but this time for Pharell and Robin Thicke over similarities between their hit 'Blurred Lines' and Marvin Gaye's 'Got to give it up'. $7.3m dollars to be precise. It raises an interesting point about whether this is merely unfortunate, and an almost subconscious act - based on listening to years of music, or conscious and deliberate. [/quote] I think there's no question of whether this one was conscious or not. In a May 2013 interview Thicke said: [quote] "Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye's "Got to Give It Up." I was like, "Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove." Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it. The whole thing was done in a couple hours—normally, those are the best ones." [/quote] [url="http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2013/05/robin-thicke-interview-blurred-lines-music-video-collaborating-with-2-chainz-and-kendrick-lamar-mercy.html"]http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2013/05/robin-thicke-interview-blurred-lines-music-video-collaborating-with-2-chainz-and-kendrick-lamar-mercy.html[/url] No coincidence there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkgod Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) it seems drum beats as well, i remember all the hass over the drum break in the Winstons song "Amen Brother" when it was sampled then became an iconic break " The Aman Break" used by just about everyone, then zero G, stating it was theirs and you have to pay to use it, a very intresting insight into the corp big wigs stealing your stuff and you not having enough money to fight it, found it... watch this, its worth it and really opens your eyes.... [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac"]https://www.youtube....h?v=5SaFTm2bcac[/url] Edited March 11, 2015 by funkgod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) [quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1426074161' post='2714014'] Anyone ever sued Led Zeppelin? I'm sure I've seen a youtube vid of about a dozen songs they've ripped off! [/quote] Yes, Willie Dixon won out of court settlement. Edited March 11, 2015 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1426075984' post='2714041'] I think there's no question of whether this one was conscious or not. In a May 2013 interview Thicke said: [/quote] Oh dear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1426053539' post='2713769'] ... It raises an interesting point about whether this is merely unfortunate, and an almost subconscious act - based on listening to years of music, or conscious and deliberate. ... [/quote] Under the law, conscious or unconscious, intended or unintended is of no relevance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1426092905' post='2714309'] Oh dear [/quote] I'm sure they were misquoted. What they actually said was, although we're big fans of Marvin Gaye, neither of us had actually heard that track until people starting pointing out the similarities. Spooky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1426073287' post='2713994'] I think I remember that George Harrison got clobbered because My Sweet Lord had 3 notes that sounded a bit like He's so Fine by Phil Spector? [/quote] I think you'll maybe find that the three notes didn't 'sound a bit like' [i]He's So Fine[/i] by The Chiffons - they were in fact the same three notes. The song that Harrison actually had in mind was [i]Oh Happy Day[/i] by the Edwin Hawkins SIngers I believe after the court case Harrison bought the rights to [i]He's So Fine[/i]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) [quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1426076766' post='2714054'] it seems drum beats as well, i remember all the hass over the drum break in the Winstons song "Amen Brother" when it was sampled then became an iconic break " The Aman Break" used by just about everyone, then zero G, stating it was theirs and you have to pay to use it, a very intresting insight into the corp big wigs stealing your stuff and you not having enough money to fight it, found it... watch this, its worth it and really opens your eyes.... [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac"]https://www.youtube....h?v=5SaFTm2bcac[/url] [/quote] But what you are referring to here is 'sampling' which infringes upon the mechanical (now digital of course) sound recording done by someone else without paying for that use. Edited March 11, 2015 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1426093197' post='2714317'] I think you'll maybe find that the three notes didn't 'sound a bit like' [i]He's So Fine[/i] by The Chiffons - they were in fact the same three notes. The song that Harrison actually had in mind was [i]Oh Happy Day[/i] by the Edwin Hawkins SIngers I believe after the court case Harrison bought the rights to [i]He's So Fine[/i]. [/quote] He tried to at least. The whole case apparently took until 1998 to be settled in full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [url="http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/protect/p07_music_copyright"]http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/protect/p07_music_copyright[/url] [url="http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law"]http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1426074761' post='2714022'] ... examples like Led Zeppelin where they've literally covered a song without giving appropriate credit/royalties and nothing's ever happened. ... [/quote] It's not true that nothing ever happened. For example, as well as the Wilie Dixon case, Jake Holmes sued over [i]Dazed and Confused[/i] but was less successful and the family of Randy California of the Spirit are I think still in court over [i]Stairway to Heaven[/i], etc., etc., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_plagiarism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_plagiarism[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 When I first heard 'Blurred Lines' I immediately thought it was a Marvin steal from 'Got To Give..',astoundingly so, IMHO. If they've have asked me before they recorded it, I'd have pointed out the similarity for say, a couple of million - could have saved them a packet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 A musicologist writes: http://joebennett.net/2014/02/01/did-robin-thicke-steal-a-song-from-marvin-gaye/ Essentially, despite different chords, underlying rhythm, basslines, key, vocal melody, lyrics, they sound a bit like each other and have highish pitched male vocal. The concluding sentence is interesting: "The act of putting an electric piano together with a cowbell and a 120BPM disco beat would need to have been judged a creative act in itself, making instrumentation and possibly even genre into protectable Intellectual Property. Which would have had massive implications for future creators of music". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkgod Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1426093384' post='2714321'] But what you are referring to here is 'sampling' which infringes upon the mechanical (now digital of course) sound recording done by someone else without paying for that use. [/quote] yea sorry should of made it more clear and quoted.... "It's melody and lyrics that hold copyright. No copyright on chord sequence or bassline or anything else." my point is that if wanted nothing is safe if someone wanted to take it, and they could infact copyright your Guitar or bass parts or in this case drums, off topic abit but a valid point. Edited March 11, 2015 by funkgod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1426095765' post='2714366'] The concluding sentence is interesting: "The act of putting an electric piano together with a cowbell and a 120BPM disco beat would need to have been judged a creative act in itself, making instrumentation and possibly even genre into protectable Intellectual Property. Which would have had massive implications for future creators of music". [/quote] So would they have been safe if they had used LESS COWBELL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1426076766' post='2714054'] it seems drum beats as well, i remember all the hass over the drum break in the Winstons song "Amen Brother" when it was sampled then became an iconic break " The Aman Break" used by just about everyone, then zero G, stating it was theirs and you have to pay to use it, a very intresting insight into the corp big wigs stealing your stuff and you not having enough money to fight it, found it... watch this, its worth it and really opens your eyes.... [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac"]https://www.youtube....h?v=5SaFTm2bcac[/url] [/quote] Yeah, the Amen Break thing is fascinating. What interests me is that I've know a few drummers who've used high-tuned piccolo snares to emulate that drum n' bass sound, purely because the break was sped up from the record it was sampled from. When the sampling culture starts feeding back into what instrumentalists do, it all gets a little circular! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think Led Zep have made a lot of out of court settlements; quite a few of their song credits have changed over the years. There's an extensive series of vids on Ytube about their alleged plagiarism. In the first place I'm intrigued that it's the Marvin Gay estate. If I'd only known it was them I'd have thought they were after Ed Sheeran for the similarities between Thinking Out Loud and Let's Get It On. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Admiral Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1426092979' post='2714314'] Under the law, conscious or unconscious, intended or unintended is of no relevance. [/quote] I realise that, but rather I was looking at it from the point of view of the 'writers' process and not whether the way they had come to the tune had any bearing on the legal argument. I wondered if they had consciously sought to borrow from Marvin Gaye, or had they done so subconsciously - as per the examples given of Ringo Starr and Dave Stewart? It would seem from Thicke's statements referred to above that they were well aware of what they were doing. That said, the points on which this case seems to have hinged, which appear to be a new interpretation of the law, have worrying potential implications. I wonder if Prince ever took any steps regarding Sussudio, by Phil Collins - which sounds remarkably like the Purple ones 1999? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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