Aguilar TH500 distortion issues...

[MOSCOWBASS]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427121733' post='2725975'] I work full-time (usually more than "full-time" in fact) and have a family - so, much as I would like to, I just can't put the time in to try stuff out [/quote]
Snap! and i like really clean bass, no distortion. Once you get to a certain level of gear, it's not always available locally, so most of my purchases have been blind. some work, some don't. I'd like to try Glock.

Edited March 23, 2015 by MOSCOWBASS

[M@23]

Sounds like Markbass might be a good bet, you'll probably get on well with that F1 :-)

[Highfox]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1427136369' post='2726288']
Sounds like Markbass might be a good bet, you'll probably get on well with that F1 :-)
[/quote]
Or the GB Shuttle's, they are as clean as a whistle when you want. Assuming you haven't had one.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427121733' post='2725975']
....... I am starting to realise that my preference for a pure, clean sound is maybe less common than I assumed. I am used to very low levels of distortion, and anything that adds even a small amount sounds (to my ears) to be unacceptably "different". It is very difficult to describe sound in words.
[/quote]\

+ 1 on that. I really don't like anything on my bass rig that to my ears sounds unclean. The best way I can describe it is like the bass is being played through a very slightly overdriven guitar amp. Not the sound I want from my bass at all.

[molan]

I'm gonna stand pretty firm on the belief that a TH500 does not "distort" at low levels of gain and with drive set to zero.

Without testing your head into a clean cab that doesn't have potential mis-matching issues then you simply won't know whether what you're hearing is a problem with the amp, the cab or just that you feel a low level of 'warmth' is actually distortion

[PauBass]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1427146465' post='2726519']
I'm gonna stand pretty firm on the belief that a TH500 does not "distort" at low levels of gain and with drive set to zero.

Without testing your head into a clean cab that doesn't have potential mis-matching issues then you simply won't know whether what you're hearing is a problem with the amp, the cab or just that you feel a low level of 'warmth' is actually distortion
[/quote]

Agreed, mine sounds clean too to me with no gain or set low.

[Conan]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1427146465' post='2726519']
I'm gonna stand pretty firm on the belief that a TH500 does not "distort" at low levels of gain and with drive set to zero.

Without testing your head into a clean cab that doesn't have potential mis-matching issues then you simply won't know whether what you're hearing is a problem with the amp, the cab or just that you feel a low level of 'warmth' is actually distortion
[/quote]

Oh, ok then. Maybe we'll just have to differ on that one.

You know, maybe I should get myself a job in a music shop so that I can be surrounded by loads of bass gear and have lots of time to play it? It would be easy then... But for those of us who work full -time and have family commitments, believe it or not this is not my number one priority at the moment!

I will be conducting further tests this week, but they will take place when it is convenient for me and for other concerned parties. If that is not fast enough for some people, well....

"Warmth" vs "distortion"? It's a semantic argument and I don't think anyone is going to win that! To me, anything that adds to (or takes from) a clean sound is a form of distortion. But I am a pedant and a Scientist, so my views may not agree with everyone/anyone else's.

Frankly, I'm getting bored with the whole thing now. I am disappointed with the amp, whether it is faulty or not. The cause of the disappointment will vary depending on whether it [i][b]is[/b][/i] faulty or not, but the disappointment remains the same.

Lesson to be learned from all this. Sometimes the tone that is "in your head" will always remain there.

[alexclaber]

I very much liked the TH500 I tried but similar to electric guitar through a Fender Twin, the cleanest sound it does isn't truly clean. It's probably clean enough for 95%+ of bass players wanting a clean sound though - or at least it will be through most cabs. Use a higher resolution cab and it won't sound so clean.

[Conan]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1427191160' post='2726833']
I very much liked the TH500 I tried but similar to electric guitar through a Fender Twin, the cleanest sound it does isn't truly clean. It's probably clean enough for 95%+ of bass players wanting a clean sound though - or at least it will be through most cabs. Use a higher resolution cab and it won't sound so clean.
[/quote]

Totally agree. But some people seem to think that I can't possibly hold that view without being wrong!

My current combination of basses, amp and cab does not give me what I am seeking. First World problems, I know - and I could put up with it I suppose... but why should I when there is such a wonderful resource as Basschat that allows me to change amps without even leaving work or home?!

I like my basses and love my cab, so the obvious answer is to change the amp. This doesn't make it a bad amp [i]per se[/i], just not suitable for me at this point in time. Just like the Hartke and the TC RH750 - both great amps, but not what I am looking for right now.

Of course, if I plan to sell or trade my TH500, I will make sure that it is not faulty.

[stevie]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1427191160' post='2726833']
I very much liked the TH500 I tried but similar to electric guitar through a Fender Twin, the cleanest sound it does isn't truly clean.
[/quote]

Not truly clean, as in 'distorts audibly'? (And the Fender Twin is particularly liked for its clean tone, but that's another story).

[Conan]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1427193270' post='2726875']
And the Fender Twin is particularly liked for its clean tone...
[/quote]

I though it was due to it's small size and light weight?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427191701' post='2726849']
Totally agree. But some people seem to think that I can't possibly hold that view without being wrong!
[/quote]

To me, it sounds like it could be a faulty amp and people are trying to help you figure out if it is or not. Obviously we all have our own perceptions of these threads, but I didn't think anyone was saying that your views are wrong

[Conan]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1427195509' post='2726909']
To me, it sounds like it could be a faulty amp and people are trying to help you figure out if it is or not. I didn't think anyone was saying that your views are wrong
[/quote]Maybe I'm being a touch sensitive...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427191701' post='2726849']
Totally agree. But some people seem to think that I can't possibly hold that view without being wrong!

...........
[/quote]

I'd like to hear the signal chain before I went that far..
Not sure I get warm=distortion as semantics either but like I say, you'd have to hear it
to reconcile where you are coming from.

Good or bad news...??
Your definition is a little off of the norm means the amp is ok and saleable as is and just isn't your cup of tea...or
your definition is correct and the amp is faulty... ?? IMO, of course.

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1427209982' post='2727220']
Your definition is a little off of the norm means the amp is ok and saleable as is and just isn't your cup of tea...or your definition is correct and the amp is faulty... ?? IMO, of course.
[/quote]

If I understand this correctly (and it is not your clearest post!) then we should hopefully have the answer to this on friday when we try the amp through other cabs, and other amps through my cab.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427211598' post='2727256']
If I understand this correctly (and it is not your clearest post!) then we should hopefully have the answer to this on friday when we try the amp through other cabs, and other amps through my cab.
[/quote]

Yes... have to say first thing I would have done myself, but then I come from a few years back when
affordable gear was all degrees of poor and you had to pay silly bucks for good stuff..which was out of the
question so I was always testing stuff to see which part of the chain was the let down.

First decent amp I bought was an SWR400 which cost me £745 in 1991... that is still an expensive amp nowadays
but it was and still is quality. It wont do super clean tho... I had a Hiwatt bass amp which was decent for a valve job.
I see plenty of Sound City and FAL amps which were regarded as sh** back then and are now sort after..?? still can't
believe that.
Cabs.... before TE, most bass cabs were woeful and you needed a 215 or 410 just to get some bass up..
The chassis' would have been 50w per unit upwards...but at least they were more honest watts, iirc.
That is why speakers like JBL, Gauss and EV were king... and PV did ok with the BW.
Now, people have so much more choice

The SVT fridge was a weedy cab in terms of power output but it was enough for the day. 8x80w ( 640w) is a decent handling cab
now but a tad large..... it would be easier to make it 1200w today.

But..as long as you didn't blow things up, you were ok, And SVT cabs did get blown up...
I can't recall the number of times I played through a pretty ragged one.

So, yes, I am very careful now with kit and what goes through it..and don't get me started on people with gain pedals...

[molan]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1427183770' post='2726728']


Oh, ok then. Maybe we'll just have to differ on that one.

You know, maybe I should get myself a job in a music shop so that I can be surrounded by loads of bass gear and have lots of time to play it? It would be easy then... But for those of us who work full -time and have family commitments, believe it or not this is not my number one priority at the moment!

I will be conducting further tests this week, but they will take place when it is convenient for me and for other concerned parties. If that is not fast enough for some people, well....

"Warmth" vs "distortion"? It's a semantic argument and I don't think anyone is going to win that! To me, anything that adds to (or takes from) a clean sound is a form of distortion. But I am a pedant and a Scientist, so my views may not agree with everyone/anyone else's.

Frankly, I'm getting bored with the whole thing now. I am disappointed with the amp, whether it is faulty or not. The cause of the disappointment will vary depending on whether it [i][b]is[/b][/i] faulty or not, but the disappointment remains the same.

Lesson to be learned from all this. Sometimes the tone that is "in your head" will always remain there.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone is trying to be argumentative Conan. People are just trying to be helpful.

You are totally right in that I get opportunities to compare amps at different volume and gain levels with different basses and a variety of cabs (it's barely 4-5 hours a week though and often I don't even touch a bass hen I'm in the shop).

When I tried a TH500 on your behalf and turned the gain up gradually I as listening for a level,at which distortion crept in. Of course it's entirely likely that my definition of distortion and yours are quite different.

My view of the TH500 as being able to deliver a clean tone with most basses until th gain is pushed past 12:00 and the drive is engaged is based purely on my personal views and those of our 'average' customers.

Funnily enough the biggest criticism we get of the TH500 is that it doesn't 'distort' until it's driven really hard. However this is coming from metal players who will,generally use a distortion pedal to generate the tones they want. They then try to replicate these from an Aggie and realise it won't 'distort' to their liking until really overdriven hard.

If I were to recommend an ultra-clean amp then I'd go for something like Glockenklang but they are pretty big money even on the used market.

Another alternative might be a very clean pre-amp like a Demeter bu these do have valves and might still be too warm for you.

Have you tried EBS at all? They do a pretty sparkly clean tone. Not sure who stocks the these days though

[Conan]

Thanks molan

I think we may have slightly different ways of phrasing things, and we each interpret each other's words in a way that was not quite intended... such is the problem of the internet!

As I've said, I will be trying the Aggie through a couple of other cabs tonight and on friday. I will also be able to try other amps through my cab. I have also tried different leads and cables, and different basses - so I am doing my best to identify the "problem" (although I'm starting to suspect that the problem is my own ears!).

I've had a number of amps and cabs over the years, and I have never experienced this issue before. But the only amp I had previously used with my Big One was the Hartke LH500 - which is known for being clean and clear. When I tried the TC RH750 (briefly!) the tone was fine (once I found one!) but the problem was how fiddly the controls were...

As Alex has suggested, maybe the clarity of the cabinet and the sensitivity of my ears is highlighting a very minor issue that many others would miss? If so, it is a problem I could do without...

I like the layout of the TH500, and I like its basic tone - but despite having tried most settings I can still hear a slight break-up (particularly on higher notes, as described by Jazzyvee). I suppose I could live with it, and it doesn't sound like a fault - but if I can get a cleaner sound from another amp without having to change my cab (which suits me) then i am happy to do so.

There are so many brands that I haven't tried!

Edited March 25, 2015 by Conan

[Conan]

Managed to borrow a Trace Elliot 4x10 last night. Played the first half of our rehearsal through it.

I [i][b]think[/b][/i] the distortion issue disappeared

I say "think", because although it was better, and nobody else in the band noticed any distortion, I could still hear it ever so slightly... However, I think that this is because I [i][b]expected[/b][/i] it to be there, and was listening for it.

Once I switched back to my own cab, the singer commented on how much better my tone was. It was certainly much more clear and detailed - and I suspect therein lies the "problem". The Big One reveals the sound of [i][b]any[/b][/i] amp, warts and all. Normally this would be a good thing!

Loads of other people on here have used TH500s, and many have used Barefaced cabs - but (to my knowledge) few have combined the two, and [i][b]none[/b][/i] of them have played the Aggie through a Big One. So my experiment has a sample size of one - which, as any scientist will tell you - is not a valid test!

I'll report back on tomorrow's "micro-bash" test of course, but I suspect I can already predict the results...

[Lozz196]

I run my TH500 through a Super12T, Conan and I think the reason I`ve not noticed much drive/distortion is due to using dead roundwounds, and cutting the mids/boosting the highs (I know, doing this is meant to be illegal). Noticed this the other night using my other bass which has newer strings so upped mids, lowered highs to get the same sound, and the gain was more present (nicely though). And this is with the tweeter fully off. I think you`re right re the Barefaced cabs - they reveal all that`s put into them, no colouration or bias in any areas.

[Conan]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1427359226' post='2729220']
I think you`re right re the Barefaced cabs - they reveal all that`s put into them, no colouration or bias in any areas.
[/quote]

Pretty much - although I think one or two of them [i][b]are[/b][/i] coloured to give a specific tone...

[Conan]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1427359226' post='2729220']
I think the reason I`ve not noticed much drive/distortion is due to using dead roundwounds, and cutting the mids/boosting the highs
[/quote]

Another good point Lozz! I tend to use fresh roundwounds (with extra zzzing!) and I tend to boost the mids wherever possible. I also have my treble set reasonably high.

All of these factors will be having an effect, but I suspect the biggest factor is the cabinet. Maybe the Big One is just too accurate, detailed and revealing for some amps? It will certainly be interesting to hear what a Markbass F1 sounds like through it tomorrow...

Edited March 26, 2015 by Conan

[Matt P]

as the owner of the F1 that will be up for test I'm interested in hearing the difference that the strings will make, all of my basses have flatwounds so I'm hoping that the flats+th500+midgets will sound the way I remember, I might even bring the u-bass as well!

Matt

[alexclaber]

We definitely found that midrange drivers don't get on so well with distortion, unless you want it to be in your face gnarly distortion. So cabs with them show up amp clipping more severely (and thus require more power to drive) and that would also make sense with the issues with the Big One and the TH500. Although the Gen 3 Big Series cabs cabs are actually more accurate than the Gen 1 (Big One) and Gen 2 (original Big Baby / Big Twin) they seem to get on much better with clipping amps, overdriven preamps and so on.

[Conan]

So it would appear that, for me (and my current cab) that [b][i]headroom[/i][/b] is the key... Hmmmm

There are a couple of amps in the for sale section that might be able to offer that!