Relating fees to crowd size?

[urbanx]

We have been asked to play at a large event - with a large number of paying guests.

My question is this - Would you up your fee because you know you will be playing to significantly more people than you usually would?

[Dad3353]

Do you lower your fee if there's only the bar staff, two old gents playing dominoes and a dog..?

[JTUK]

Well, it's a consideration but no, not really.
We generally have bands or rates for the type of gig it is...and
I don't like the idea of charging more just because the market can
take it. I would rather charge more for the hours on site, what is
takes to do the extra work involved and them silly things like travel and
parking.
But, by the same token, we charge a lot more for London for the all round hassle and the fact
they would probably think the band was not good enough if you were too cheap.
A friends band ..who do good weddings and corporate full time, would want close to
80% of the ticket fee ..which I thought was a very very high percentage.
They eventually settled for £2000 from gross sales of £3500 and they took care
of everything extra like sound and light engrs. Assuming gross sales were achieved
this sounded workable but put all the stress on the promotion.. they got the fee regardless.

[urbanx]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1426238297' post='2715899']
Do you lower your fee if there's only the bar staff, two old gents playing dominoes and a dog..?
[/quote]

We don't....

(Although we've been stung and seen other bands stung A LOT by a landlord saying "Oh it wasn't as busy as I'd hoped. I can only give you half" etc.)

Edited March 13, 2015 by urbanx

[JTUK]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1426238297' post='2715899']
Do you lower your fee if there's only the bar staff, two old gents playing dominoes and a dog..?
[/quote]

I've always thought this is the counter argument when bands want to push the market rate..
If bands want their fee regardless, then they might want to consider that the gig factors in
a 'loss' figure for some nights and that figure has to come out of the 'profit' figure on the more
successful gigs..?? This is why pub rates have stuck so low, IMO...as the LL needs to balance
the month's rota's success rate.against the poorer attendences.
Around here, there are very very few banker bands who will draw anytime, any day, IMO.

[urbanx]

There will be a massive ticket revenue (Hundreds of thousands)... But that because it's a sporting event...we just happen to be providing some end-of-show entertainment, So I don't think we can work on a percentage!

There is just something that feels a little odd charging the same rate for 10,000 punters as we do for 50!

[Adrenochrome]

No. However, we have played a number of very big motorbike rallies, and at the better ones we have been very well looked after - free entry & camping all weekend, free food and drink from the organisers' backstage area. So, same fee but treated better, and less spent by us, all seemed very fair.

[discreet]

[quote name='urbanx' timestamp='1426238937' post='2715912']
There is just something that feels a little odd charging the same rate for 10,000 punters as we do for 50!
[/quote]

That's got little to do with it really. Whatever fee you've negotiated and contracted for (you do have a contract, don't you?) is the fee you will receive; how much money the organisers make from the event has no bearing on that arrangement.

[TimR]

Yes.

I used to work on £5 a head for the function band.

Organisers have a budget and select their band accordingly.

There's always a minimum fee which depends on the event.

Obviously if it's a big ticketed sporting event you have no idea what the organisers entertainment budget is but if it's a 40,000 people event you're obviously not going to charge £200k. Bear in mind if you hit a problem then you will probably have to find deps or a replacement band. Depending on what you've agreed. Those deps/bands will want some money, especially if it is short notice.

.

Edited March 13, 2015 by TimR

[neepheid]

Does a plumber charge differently based upon the amount of water which will flow through the pipe?

[discreet]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1426242751' post='2715990']
Does a plumber charge differently based upon the amount of water which will flow through the pipe?
[/quote]

That's different - it's not all water.

[JTUK]

You can be too cheap tho... and you don't want to be associated or determined by that fee..
I'd price fairly... and expect to be well looked after.
If you are a side show to the main event you have to be reasonable about your value..

I wouldn't do it for pub rates tho...but it may be a gig WORTH doing... so your call..??
We generally price gigs as we feel we have a 'worth' and that worth
is not anywhere near what we can get in a pub. We accept that.

[TimR]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1426242751' post='2715990']
Does a plumber charge differently based upon the amount of water which will flow through the pipe?
[/quote]

That old plumber analogy.

But yes. He does. We have some pretty big pipes where we work. 1200mm diameter. The 'plumbers' get quite a lot of money.

[TheRev]

We have a 'pub' fee for gigs with no door charge and an 'event' fee for gigs where punters have to buy a ticket/pay on the door . Both are negotiable depending on what/where/when but the pub fee has an upper limit based on what pubs can realistically afford/get from the PubCo or brewery and the event fee has a lower limit based on the premise that if the promoter is booking us to sell tickets that we should be getting a fair crack of that whip.

We also have a 'supporting the legends of the west country' fee which may or may not cover our expenses but is regained in merch sales and the potential for expanding our fanbase.

[urbanx]

Cheers guys, some really interesting answers. We've upped our usual 'pub' fee slightly, due to it being in London, and the extra theatrics that we'll put on, but we've proposed a figure very similar to our normal fee.

[KevB]

Just put extra drugs and hookers on the band rider. It all evens itself out.

[blue]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1426239320' post='2715917']
No. However, we have played a number of very big motorbike rallies, and at the better ones we have been very well looked after - free entry & camping all weekend, free food and drink from the organisers' backstage area. So, same fee but treated better, and less spent by us, all seemed very fair.
[/quote]

I never think much about food and accommodations. You can't take those things home with. Money, is where it's at.

This sounds like a corporate type event. It also sounds like there's a lot of money changing hands. I say get some of it and charge at least triple your rate.

It's a business, make some money.

Blue

[TheGreek]

Hey Blue

Is that a guitar in your avatar??

[blue]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1426370547' post='2717488']
Hey Blue

Is that a guitar in your avatar??
[/quote]

No, that is not a guitar. It's my Gibson Gold Top Les Paul bass guitar. I also have the Gibson ES-335 bass guitar. They're ok basses, I mainly use them for their stage appeal/ their looks.

Blue

Edited March 15, 2015 by blue

[JoeEvans]

I would bump up the fee a bit for a big gig. Not ridiculously so, but if it's a big budget gig you need to put on a good show so you might be rehearsing extra thoroughly; you'd definitely need deps if someone was ill or whatever; any faintly dodgy bits of equipment will want to be replaced, even if it's only crackly leads or whatever. Ultimately, the fee any musician gets paid is not about how awesome they are, it's about how much money is changing hands for the event. Even if people are not there just to see you, you're contributing to a big piece of business; you will want to behave extra-professionally in that context, but you also ought to get paid a little bit more.

[discreet]

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1426458197' post='2718283']
...if it's a big budget gig you need to put on a good show so you might be rehearsing extra thoroughly...
[/quote]

What if it's NOT a big budget gig? Would you put on a mediocre show and do half-assed rehearsals..?

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1426458197' post='2718283']
... if it's a big budget gig you need to put on a good show so you might be rehearsing extra thoroughly; ...
[/quote]
[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1426458349' post='2718286']
What if it's NOT a big budget gig? Would you put on a mediocre show and do half-assed rehearsals..?
[/quote]

Both good points, you shouldn't stand up on a stage and give any audience 60%, however we all know that if you are booked for a wedding/corporate there are extra demands, reliability being one of them.

Charging is so difficult to get right, if you included all your costs in gear, travel, practice time etc and then charged minimum wage then band fees would price live music out of the reach of nearly all but the biggest music pubs. In the end though I want the pub scene to thrive and the pub to make a modest profit, so prices are pitched at what the market can bear. In the area I live we do charge slightly differently for the busier town centre pubs compared with the smaller country pubs. No doubt if we were in a wealthier area playing bigger busier pubs we'd charge a bit more for that too, but very simple economics drive band fees for this sort of gig

For anything corporate or private we charge something more realistic, effectively double our normal fee. If it is a ticketed event there's no reason for the band to be working for less than the bar staff or caterers.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Phil Starr

[JTUK]

Ramping up for a big show is something a lot of bands can't do... or even really care about.
Entertaining a 1000 people that are there pretty much for your spot is not easy and a pub set
will not really do it...nor will pub banter.
Nobody is going to pay £10 a ticket for the same act they can see in the pub for free...
and unfortunately, bands see the gig and the money before the obligation of being up to it..
Also, tho... the bookers don't always get it either,

[chaypup]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1426367825' post='2717468']


I never think much about food and accommodations. You can't take those things home with. Money, is where it's at.

This sounds like a corporate type event. It also sounds like there's a lot of money changing hands. I say get some of it and charge at least triple your rate.

It's a business, make some money.

Blue
[/quote]

+1

This is why its good sometimes to have a manager/agent who is going to be less shy about asking for more cash.

[TimR]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1426458349' post='2718286']


What if it's NOT a big budget gig? Would you put on a mediocre show and do half-assed rehearsals..?
[/quote]

Yes.

There are two types of performance.

It's music so it should have a certain amount of spontaneity. If you over rehearse a tune until it is tight, the solos are note for note, the endings are exactly the same etc, the banter between songs is rehearsed, it (IMO) begins to get sterile. You see this in corporate bands all the time.

If you are playing a corporate gig you need to get to this level of sterility. If you are playing a pub gig you need the music to breathe so the rehearsals have a different slant.