Band leadership - Democracy or dictatorship?

[Bradwell]

This is going to be a bit of a contentious issue but I wanted other people's perspective and it's probably a good opportunity for anecdotes about what works and what doesn't when it comes to playing with other musicians.

I started up my first band with friends last year, learnt a lot in that time and reckon I've become a much better musician in the process.

We sacked our lead guitarist just before christmas and got one that was a much better fit so that slowed progress a fair amount.

We're writing original songs, this is proving to be a difficult and slow process but rewarding when things take shape. The material we're writing now is much better than the initial work and the intention is to be gigging within a few months, however, there's a lack of direction that makes me doubtful we'll have enough good quality material. I think we need about 40 to 50 minutes for playing bars and small clubs.

The problem with the band is that I'm the most organised and driven whilst everybody else concentrates on their own playing. When it comes to trying new things / setting schedules etc. I get the response "this band is a democracy, we don't want to do that"

[lou24d53]

Personally, I don't work well with the 'dictatorship' method. In the band I play in, all our decisions are taking as a majority rule. I left a band a few years ago due to the singer (and majority songwriter) starting to inflate his ego to epic proportions and decided it wasn't for me. Playing in my band is a hobby to me, one I take seriously granted, but I already have a boss at work, I don't need one to answer to in my free time.

[JTUK]

These things come to a head at some point and IMO, bands are never equal so my way of dealing with it is to put a
monetary figure on the work you do. Of course, you have to generate and preside over money for that to work
but this is where being grown up needs to kick in quickly. People need to realise that if ALL they contribute
is the music side, then nothing else will get done unless someone does it...??
This doesn't make you a dictator but it does give you a voice on that aspect and also you become the driver...??
If people don't recognise or respect that..or have time for it..( it all amounts to the same thing of not getting anything done )
then if you stop doing that stuff, the band will slowly wind down and fade away...
If that is what they want then so be it... you know what you'll likely do next.

Artistic issues versus working practices... but one is no good without the other. They need to understand that.

[Truckstop]

Musically and creatively speaking I think I could only work in a democracy.

Logistically speaking I prefer a dictatorship. It's nice to have a chief cat-herder in a band who's happy to collect kitty money, chase venues and promoters, book rehearsal rooms and generally push the band towards a common goal.

[lou24d53]

We're a trio and we each have our own strengths and weaknesses.

To be fair, the singer / songwriter is probably our 'lead' figure in the band and it is he who is the creativity behind the songwriting process.

The drummer lectures on architecture at Uni as a living and is the one behind the logos, graphics and photos etc,

My OCD-attention-to-detail-ism helps me to take control of the managerial elements, organising band calendars, booking rehearsals, gigs and recording sessions etc. far better than the other two would.

If everyone agrees to play to your strengths without getting ar$ey about it with each other, it will work.

[cheddatom]

I do both. In terms of making original music, a democracy is definitely better. In terms of getting gigs, getting money in, pushing the band forward, dictatorship wins.

[wateroftyne]

The most 'successful' (I don't mean commercially) bands I'm in have a dictator who is aware of their strengths and limitations.

His or her judgement is trusted and respected on the stuff they really know about, and the rest of the responsibility is shared.

[TimR]

Democratically elect a leader.

[Happy Jack]

In my studio I have storage boxes filled with gear, the contents written on the box. So there's a box labelled "XLR leads", and a box labelled "Jack leads", and a box labelled "Kettle leads", etc.

A few weeks ago I noticed that someone had added some graffiti to one of the boxes.

It now reads "Jack leads, from the back".

Hope this helps.

[BobVbass]

Benevolent dictatorship - everyone has a say but someone has the final one.

[Marvin]

I wouldn't even entertain the thought of joining a band that had a dictator. Work is bad enough, i don't need it outside work.

[TimR]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1426262619' post='2716340']
I wouldn't even entertain the thought of joining a band that had a dictator. Work is bad enough, i don't need it outside work.
[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone means that kind of dictator.

I've found it works best if everyone has their own job to do. Eg one person gets gigs, another sorts logistics, another sorts advertising.

Trust each person to do their job with a decent brief from the rest of the band. Too many cooks...

[JapanAxe]

I think I once started a similar thread myself, so I may be repeating myself here, but what the hey!

I don't mind what the band's 'corporate structure' is, as long as everyone agrees from the start.

Example 1 - Democracy - 3-pc pub covers band. We supplied our own instruments and backline, but owned equal shares in the PA. Each October we would divvy up the venues 3 ways and each try to get as many gigs as we could. New material was decided by an occasional informal meeting. When I left, the other guys bough out my share of the PA at an agreed depreciated rate. Everybody happy.

Example 2 - Dictatorship - 5- to 9-pc dance band. One guy ran the band, owned the PA and 'pad' (sheet music), sorted the gigs, and paid all the players. You turned up, you played, you got paid. Everybody happy.

Example 3 - Dictatorship - 3-pc country band. I run it as a sole trader, own the PA, sort the material (with input from the others), pay for rehearsal space, get the bookings, sign the contracts. I pay the guys (or deps) as sub-contractors; 1/3 of the take, or if it is a larger sum and won't split 3 ways, I keep an extra £10 or £20. Everybody happy - almost. Actually I am fed up of all the hard work involved, and hankering after being a minion rather than Gru!

[beely]

I think Truckstop and wateroftyne have pretty well nailed it.
Every band should have a "leader", for want of a better term.
In my band, that's me, but only to the extent of organising rehearsals and all the 101 crappy but necessary things you have to do.
The rest of the band just have to learn their stuff, turn up and play.
Musically we are all pretty much of the same mind so there is no real friction there.

[BassTool]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1426254346' post='2716206']
The most 'successful' (I don't mean commercially) bands I'm in have a dictator who is aware of their strengths and limitations.

His or her judgement is trusted and respected on the stuff they really know about, and the rest of the responsibility is shared.
[/quote]

This.

Is bang on.

Saved me writing the same thing WOT

[bonzodog]

[quote name='beely' timestamp='1426264183' post='2716371']
I think Truckstop and wateroftyne have pretty well nailed it.
Every band should have a "leader", for want of a better term.
In my band, that's me, but only to the extent of organising rehearsals and all the 101 crappy but necessary things you have to do.
The rest of the band just have to learn their stuff, turn up and play.
Musically we are all pretty much of the same mind so there is no real friction there.
[/quote]

Yes thats us too. i am pretty lucky that in my 3 piece covers band we are all good mates too. The other two are far too laid back and I organise all the rehearsals and gigs and advise if we need new gear. They take the p*** out of my spreadsheets and endless emails but deep down i know they appreciate it and i enjoy doing it all. My wife works week day evenings and i have two young kids so it fills my evenings up. But I always make sure we are all in agreement on where and what we play

[Bradwell]

Thanks for all the replies.

Truckstop and Water of Tyne we're right on the money with the model I'm aiming for.

Musically I know I'm limited in what I create, I've got strengths and weaknesses like the other guys in my band so writing has too be a collaborative effort.

Logistically I'm trying to organise a lot of things in addition to owning most of the equipment: PA, guitar amps & cabs, bass rig, guitars that we keep at the practice room, set of cymbals, microphones, practice pads for drums. The list could go on. The main reason for this is I'm the one with a stable and well paid job, the other guys are 4 or 5 years younger. A uni student and two guys trying to make ends meet.

Delegating tasks and sorting out the musical direction isn't easy and I'm at the point where letting the band bumble along just isn't working.

Not that I want to detract from the focus of the thread, but I end up making the same complaints repeatedly: Practice sessions are too loud and the drummer doesn't experiment with damping his kit or changing technique, guitars are playing full chords and the rhythm is too thick, not much gets done between practice sessions, song structures and musical scores don't get written out we just memorise as we go along.

[lojo]

Ive experienced blissful democracy in an band , but it seems like its a rare thing which only happens when the stars are aligned, I haven't found it on many other occasions, which is frustrating when I know it can.

Think every situation is different , people, skills, goals, attitudes, tastes etc , no one approach fits all. I guess being in a band is a relationship 3, 4, 5, ways

Edited March 13, 2015 by lojo

[discreet]

If I'm being paid what I consider to be a fair price for my efforts I'm happy to turn up, keep quiet and play whatever anyone wants me to play. If I'm doing it for my own amusement (and paying my own expenses) then I expect to have at least some creative input and a proportional vote regarding material choice and direction, etc. Or at the very least have my opinions listened to and considered... that's it.

[chris_b]

A dictatorship is worth it if; a) you're being treated fairly, b ) the band, the players and the numbers are great, c) the work's good and plentiful or d) you're to a lazy to do the work yourself.

If you're being told [i]"this band is a democracy, we don't want to do that"[/i]. I'd ask, a democracy for who? And who ultimately decides [i]"we don't want to do that!"[/i]

As an aside;
Democracy isn't always the best way forward, hence the term, "like trying to herd cats!" I never worked for a company that was a democracy and I did pretty well in most of the working environments I went into.

Edited March 13, 2015 by chris_b

[Number6]

Whenever i feel i am being dictated too there is an urge to revolt and agitate so for me democracy suits.

[Roger2611]

I have both, the covers band is a democracy of sorts, no one has final say, we all choose songs on a rota basis, I hate half the songs other band members choose and no doubt they hate my choices, the band has been together over six years now, we are still friends, we still enjoy playing together.

The original band is definitely a dictatorship, our guitarist / singer writes all the songs, he tells us what he wants, we play what we want, he suggests trying it different ways before finally deciding that what we played in the first place was right for the song! He directs everything the band does....sounds horrendous doesn't it?

Tell you what I far prefer the dictatorship method, we get to take the mickey out of him half the time, he totally recognises what we all bring to the table, I really enjoy the writing sessions as they are organised and end up being very productive, gigs are well thought out and targeted....above all else he is a cracking songwriter which I think gives him the right to run his vision his way

[Bradwell]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1426268611' post='2716441']
A dictatorship is worth it if; a) you're being treated fairly, b ) the band, the players and the numbers are great, c) the work's good and plentiful or d) you're to a lazy to do the work yourself.
[/quote]

a) They are (by me). b ) Great friends and when we get things together the music is awesome. c) A sticking point - at what point do I say I've seen it coming and it's not going to work for the amount of time & effort I put in. d) Another sticking point because the work isn't evenly distributed in this 'democracy'.

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1426272099' post='2716505']
Tell you what I far prefer the dictatorship method, we get to take the mickey out of him half the time, he totally recognises what we all bring to the table, I really enjoy the writing sessions as they are organised and end up being very productive, gigs are well thought out and targeted....above all else he is a cracking songwriter which I think gives him the right to run his vision his way
[/quote]

I suppose there's an understanding that it's the best way for that band to be run and not about one person's ego.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Bradwell

[Lozz196]

In our band, the guitarist/singer does virtually everything, but it`s because he has the get up and go to do it - everything he does is what we all want, so I`d class it a two-thirds lazy democracy.

I`ve been in bands with dictators before, but the worst was with a mate who had no musical knowledge, and governed it by what he wouldn`t do - I`m not doing this, I`m not doing that. One of the happiest days of my life when he left the band. At least with dictators who do stuff you get the benefits of doing it as well.

[discreet]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1426272099' post='2716505']
Tell you what I far prefer the dictatorship method, we get to take the mickey out of him half the time, he totally recognises what we all bring to the table, I really enjoy the writing sessions as they are organised and end up being very productive, gigs are well thought out and targeted....above all else he is a cracking songwriter which I think gives him the right to run his vision his way
[/quote]

I think it's worth repeating the point - if you like what the dictator is doing and agree with it, then it's all dinky-doody... otherwise it's not.

Edited March 13, 2015 by discreet