Warwick Fretless Pickup Change: Suggestions?

[Bronner]

[u][b]My Bass[/b][/u]: Warwick Corvette Fretless, Passive Pickups in 2 J-bass configuration.

I would like your advice on:

[u][b]The Tone I am After[/b][/u]:

1. I would like to change the pickups (&/or add a preamp) to get tone closer to a Wal fretless bass (something like Mick Karn). Any suggestions on changing the pickups or adding a preamp for achieving this objective. Your experiences with after-market pickups or preamps in the J-bass configuration is welcome.

(N.B. [i]I know buying a Wal is easier, and wood type makes a difference, etc. ... but any information on getting a passive corvette to sound more like a Wal is welcome[/i].)

[u][b]Next best bit of advice:[/b][/u]

2. Okay. Maybe you don't play fretless or haven't heard Mick Karn's tone. Have you changed your passive Warwick pickups in the J-bass configuration to another brand? What brand was it? Can you tell me about the tone changes? Was it better for you?

Many thanks.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Bronner

[CamdenRob]

Wal pickups are fairly unusual in that they have seperate windings for each pole piece within the pickup... In my opinion this is what gives Wal basses their unique tone, more so than the filter preamp as the characteristic burp is there regardless of the EQ settings. It's not that the preamp is irrelevent, far from it, I find it intuative and powerful without being overly complicated, but I do think it's the pickups that contribute mostly to the sound of a Wal.

The only other manufacturers offering pickups similar to this as far as I know are ACG and Enfield and they will not sell you a set seperate from one of their instruments (understandably) Also both these manufacturers make their multi coil pickups in a soapbar size casing not a jazz replacement as you would need.

Edited March 16, 2015 by CamdenRob

[Bronner]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1426517750' post='2718720']
Wal pickups are fairly unusual in that they have seperate windings for each pole piece within the pickup... In my opinion this is what gives Wal basses their unique tone, more so than the filter preamp as the characteristic burp is there regardless of the EQ settings. It's not that the preamp is irrelevent, far from it, I find it intuative and powerful without being overly complicated, but I do think it's the pickups that contribute mostly to the sound of a Wal.

The only other manufacturers offering pickups similar to this as far as I know are ACG and Enfield and they will not sell you a set seperate from one of their instruments (understandably) Also both these manufacturers make their multi coil pickups in a soapbar size casing not a jazz replacement as you would need.
[/quote]

Rob, Thanks for info. Really appreciate it.

Now looking at a Wal pickup I see there are some similarities to the old Ovation Magnum.

http://www.ovationtribute.com/Ovation_Guitars_Patents/Magnum_1979_Bass_Pickup_Patent/Magnum_1979_Bass_Pickup_Patent.html

Edited March 16, 2015 by Bronner

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Bronner' timestamp='1426520111' post='2718766']
Rob, Thanks for info. Really appreciate it.

Now looking at a Wal pickup I see there are some similarities to the old Ovation Magnum.

[url="http://www.ovationtribute.com/Ovation_Guitars_Patents/Magnum_1979_Bass_Pickup_Patent/Magnum_1979_Bass_Pickup_Patent.html"]http://www.ovationtr...kup_Patent.html[/url]
[/quote]

Yes indeed... I didn't know that, that's very interesting.

Although that looks to be from 1980... Todays Wal pickups are almost identical to those they were making in the 70s.

[skelf]

I have a few vides on the sight done by Joe who nails the Wal tone pretty well. The bass does not have the multi coils in it but does have the EQ01 filter preamp. Have a look in the media section on my site.

Edited March 16, 2015 by skelf

[Bronner]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426528950' post='2718962']
I have a few vides on the sight done by Joe who nails the Wal tone pretty well. The bass does. It have the multi coils in it but does have the EQ01 filter preamp. Have alok in the media section on my site.
[/quote]

Yes this preamp is very good. Previously heard it.

Questions for you:

1. Do you think the Pre amp will sound ok with the pickups the standard corvette fretless comes with? (They are actually good pickups for more of an acoustic fretless sound).

2. For the 5 knob version, is it possible to switch the preamp off and use only the passive tone?


[b]2-Pickup, 5-Knob[/b][list]
[*]Volume/Blend Stack
[*]Stacked Filter Frequency/Filter Peak for Neck Pickup
[*]Stacked Filter Frequency/Filter Peak for Bridge Pickup
[*]Treble Frequency/Treble Level
[*]Passive Tone
[/list]

By the way, if you build that PreAmp, it's a really good one. Job well done.

[3below]

String choice made quite a difference with my Corvette fretless. TI flats and now currently D'addario chromes. Significant tonal differences.

[Bronner]

Okay, so in my quest to achieve this elusive Wal tone, I came across 2 links:

First one looks like someone tried to clone a Wal completely; I have no idea how successful they were. Interesting though that it's a through neck design.

http://dbbasses.com/page4.php

Second link I found looks like someone tried to clone a Wal pickup and that thread appears to have rambled on for several years, and I can't tell what happened apart from the thread just stopping. Don't try to read the whole thing; you'll just get a headache.

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/won-the-wal-pickup-on-ebay.432803/page-48

[skelf]

[quote name='Bronner' timestamp='1426533913' post='2719047']
Yes this preamp is very good. Previously heard it.

Questions for you:

1. Do you think the Pre amp will sound ok with the pickups the standard corvette fretless comes with? (They are actually good pickups for more of an acoustic fretless sound).

2. For the 5 knob version, is it possible to switch the preamp off and use only the passive tone?


[b]2-Pickup, 5-Knob[/b][list]
[*]Volume/Blend Stack
[*]Stacked Filter Frequency/Filter Peak for Neck Pickup
[*]Stacked Filter Frequency/Filter Peak for Bridge Pickup
[*]Treble Frequency/Treble Level
[*]Passive Tone
[/list]
By the way, if you build that PreAmp, it's a really good one. Job well done.
[/quote]


Hi
I know there have been several fitted to Waricks and as far as I know people are happy with the setup.

No the active/passive is only available in the DFM pre-amp which as Rob mention I don't sell. The passive tone on the 01 works the same way as a normal passive tone control and work directly on the pickups before the active section.


John East builds them for me.

[skelf]

[quote name='Bronner' timestamp='1426538660' post='2719151']
Okay, so in my quest to achieve this elusive Wal tone, I came across 2 links:

First one looks like someone tried to clone a Wal completely; I have no idea how successful they were. Interesting though that it's a through neck design.

[url="http://dbbasses.com/page4.php"]http://dbbasses.com/page4.php[/url]

Second link I found looks like someone tried to clone a Wal pickup and that thread appears to have rambled on for several years, and I can't tell what happened apart from the thread just stopping. Don't try to read the whole thing; you'll just get a headache.

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/won-the-wal-pickup-on-ebay.432803/page-48"]http://www.talkbass.....432803/page-48[/url]
[/quote]

I supplied the pre-amp for that bass as far as I know.


I would suggest you search on talkbass about the pickup builder to find out the situation regarding the company.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426542284' post='2719225']
Hi
I know there have been several fitted to Waricks and as far as I know people are happy with the setup.

[/quote]

Yep - me for one.

[Bronner]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1426543740' post='2719254']
Yep - me for one.
[/quote]

1. Did you use the passive MEC pickups that came with the Warwick?

2. Your bass is fretless?

Sound clips please.

If you have some sound clips or video of the bass, I'd love to hear it; that's exactly the type of information I'm looking for. And in the process you'd be helping ACG sell some preamps. The issue with after-market parts always is knowing how it will sound in a particular instrument.

[Bronner]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426542389' post='2719230']
I supplied the pre-amp for that bass as far as I know.


I would suggest you search on talkbass about the pickup builder to find out the situation regarding the company.
[/quote]

The thread was 1,000+ posts long. I read it for about 30-40 minutes, and couldn't tell what happened in the end, though my guess is that something went drastically wrong.

The builders page just shows a picture of a pickup that *kind of* looks like a Wal pickup, but with no sound clips or reviews ... without any clue as to what was made, how it was made, how it sounds or if it's good or bad, or whatever. Just a picture. I try to buy gear with my ears and less my eyes, so it doesn't help me.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Bronner

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Bronner' timestamp='1426600471' post='2719701']
The thread was 1,000+ posts long. I read it for about 30-40 minutes, and couldn't tell what happened in the end, though my guess is that something went drastically wrong.

The builders page just shows a picture of a pickup that *kind of* looks like a Wal pickup, but with no sound clips or reviews ... without any clue as to what was made, how it was made, how it sounds or if it's good or bad, or whatever. Just a picture. I try to buy gear with my ears and less my eyes, so it doesn't help me.
[/quote]

Was that the SGD guy? I understand that all got a bit messy with legal action etc. pretty sure he's no longer in business.

[skelf]

That was what I was getting at. It did not end well.

[Bronner]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426603001' post='2719743']
That was what I was getting at. It did not end well.
[/quote]

I tried to read the whole thread.

I'll say this: Your products sound good, and I'm pretty fussy about tone. I think some of the people that own Warwicks and put in your preamp should make videos. There are a lot of corvettes out there, and while the pickup is good; it lacks in the type of tone that is the subject of this thread. What I'm saying is that there may be a bigger market for your pre. The passive fretless Warwicks are a nice piece of wood, but a one trick pony in the tone department. The 'E' and 'A' strings sound nice, while the 'D' and 'G' strings lack.

I used the Warwick corvette on 'Little Wing' here: [url="https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/freddieroulettedaphneblu"]https://www.cdbaby.c...ulettedaphneblu[/url]

It's *ok* with the right set of speakers, but I would have preferred your preamp or the Wal. I think the rest of the recordings, apart from the one that's 40 years old, are the Hofner bass.

* Correction: Sleepwalk / Neptune's Kingdom is the stock Warwick fretless too.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Bronner

[skelf]

It is not that thread search SGD on talkbass.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Bronner' timestamp='1426600160' post='2719694']
1. Did you use the passive MEC pickups that came with the Warwick?

2. Your bass is fretless?

Sound clips please.

If you have some sound clips or video of the bass, I'd love to hear it; that's exactly the type of information I'm looking for. And in the process you'd be helping ACG sell some preamps. The issue with after-market parts always is knowing how it will sound in a particular instrument.
[/quote]

nope - my Warwick is an old Streamer Stage One and would originally have had Active MEC pups, It now has passive barts

Nope it has frets

and I do have a very long MP3 of some random playing at church that was recorded straight from the desk. It's not that great but you can hear the bass... PM if you want it. I would say that as a preamp it can give you so so many options that my awful playing isn't really going to tell you that much...

[LukeFRC]

I also would say that IMO unless you build and design something yourself* the EQ-01 is probably the best and only filter based preamp out there to get you into "Wal - like" territory - it will take you a good while to learn how to adjust it on the fly (and also that it's best not to)
ultimately you'll have to do what I did and make a leap of faith.






[size=1]* google state variable filter [/size]

Edited March 17, 2015 by LukeFRC

[skelf]

The latest version of the 01 has an octave taken of the top end on the lowpass filters which brings it into line with the DFM. This reduction in range gives greater resolution in the pot rotation which in turn makes it easier to use. It also brings the filters more in line with the range used by Wal.

[Bronner]

In doing some more research on the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]SGD guy who was trying to build a clone of a Wal pickup I found an audio link that shows a comparison between the pickup he made and an actual Wal pickup. Here it is:[/font][/color]

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/wal-vs-sgd-wal-clone-soundbyte-included.1099119/"]http://www.talkbass....cluded.1099119/[/url]

So the SGD guy actually built -- or attempted to build -- a Wal style pickup. Before I was under the impression that he hadn't built one at all.

To my ears the *clone* pickup is lacking in clarity, low-end punch and volume. (Could it be the different preamps? I don't know.) How close did he get to replicating the Wal pickup? I'd say *kind of* or *sort of* half way there. The clone pickup is very mid-rangy (might not be bad for fretless bass actually).

The example is on a fretted bass -- so for me that's not really interesting: I like the Wal sound on fretless mostly. (Fretted isn't bad, but for me there are other good options.) This is my taste.

At least a sound clip exists so people can judge for themselves. As always when talking about gear and tone comparisons, audio clips are the way to go. The real error in the comparison is that the pickups weren't compared in passive mode.

- Does the clone sound like a Wal on that clip? Maybe a little/Not really.

- Is it possible the clone pickup has some useful application? It's possible; doesn't sound horrible.

- Is it possible the clone sounds more like a Wal pickup that the sound clip reveals? Yes, because two different preamps were used and there will be some coloration to the tone added or subtracted.

[u][b]UPDATE[/b][/u]: Just listened to the comparison again through different monitors. The pickups (or possibly the preamps) do sound different, but a little less different than I first thought. If the clone was available and reasonably priced I'd carve a hole in a cheap bass and try it out; why not? Assuming the patent on the Wal pickup has expired, which seems likely, the guy that tried to clone the pickup should find a reliable Chinese manufacturer and offer them at an inexpensive price so those who want to try one can.

How offended am I in the Wal-cloners design efforts? Let's put it this way: I'm a lot more offended at what Fender has put out for the last 20 years under the "Stratocaster," "Telecaster," "Jazz Bass," and "Precision Bass" brand names. A lot of those newer instruments are horrible replicas of the originals -- in a phrase they're: shoddy clones.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Bronner

[Dazed]

There is another builder on talkbass - MPU in Finland I believe,that was also building multicoil pickups. I've seen some that were finished. I understand they were quite similar to Wal pickups in that they were 2 coils per string. Might be worth contacting him.

For what it's worth Ive had a Wal and an ACG. Both are fantastically flexible tone wise but still different. I loved both pre amps, but you definitely need to spend time learning how to get the sounds you are looking for.

I'm looking at replacing a bartolini humbucker currently in a warwick so will be following this with interest.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Dazed

[Sidthesqib]

Hello Bronner, I know this is quite an old thread now - but how did your search go and what choices did you make regarding pickups and preamp choices? I too have a Warwick fretless Corvette and on the same quest regarding a possible pup change/ preamp for a Wal esque sound. Did you ever achieve your goal?

Edited July 30, 2020 by Sidthesqib