Active Barefaced

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1426685235' post='2720741']Quick question as there's no pic of the subwoofer - is it front loaded? Or is a horn design?

The only small drivered yet super efficient subs that I've experienced is the Danley tapped horn stuff - but they are far from super light!
[/quote]

I spent quite some time on tapped horn designs because I suspected that could be the best way to go (and fortunately Danley's patent application didn't succeed due to prior art). However, the more research I did, the more I found that for this purpose simple reflex boxes would perform at least as well and with lower size/weight/cost. We have another larger sub in the works which is going to be a more unusual design and if we ever get around to doing cinema type subs then I think we'll be going for some kind of horn or tapped horn as it's in the super low frequencies that the reduced excursion from the tapped horn pays off.

With the very high excursion drivers we're using the problem with a tapped horn is that you run into increased risk of thermal failure, which means you end up having to be super cautious in how you program the DSP and select the amp, whilst with a ported box we can let the speaker be driven harder.

[quote name='stoo' timestamp='1426688622' post='2720806']Only downside I can see vs the F112 is losing the wedge option... but i've got one of those Markbass folding propstands so even that's not a big deal.[/quote]

We are working on a tilting solution for monitoring purposes!

[Merton]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1426683082' post='2720683']
Any local (Brighton) bands want to borrow a pair?
[/quote]

Yes. Not quite Brighton but close enough! Email me

[EBS_freak]

Been looking at this sub again... Whats the advantage of the sub? Why not just buy another top (after all, they go as low) - am I right in thinking that you have crippled the response of the speaker via DSP so all the power goes to getting the low frequencies - and also removed the tweeter?

Buying another top seems to make more sense. Gives you greater redundancy on a gig also - or does the sub develop more bass that the tops?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1426714138' post='2721284']
Been looking at this sub again... Whats the advantage of the sub? Why not just buy another top (after all, they go as low) - am I right in thinking that you have crippled the response of the speaker via DSP so all the power goes to getting the low frequencies - and also removed the tweeter?

Buying another top seems to make more sense. Gives you greater redundancy on a gig also - or does the sub develop more bass that the tops?
[/quote]

You could certainly use the FR800 as a sub because it's the same as the LF800 with the addition of the high frequency elements. Would just need the different DSP presets uploading, so you could choose two LF and two FR presets to give you redundancy on a gig.

Main advantage of the sub is that it's £200 less expensive and lighter too - and that if you want an awesome yet little sub for your existing PA system you won't want the extra abilities of the FR800.

Edited March 19, 2015 by alexclaber

[badboy1984]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1426539225' post='2719166']
I want.

Don't tell Mrs FRC - I just picked up a lovely green mesa walkabout scout - no idea how I would justify this one to her! It would have to be one in one out... and still don't think I'ld get away with it!
[/quote]

I done that in the pass, she will know no matter how hard you tried to hide it lol. Unless you selling something to fund the purchase otherwise you better make up some excuse or treat her with something else lol.

[Dood]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1426632280' post='2720257']
Can you pull your basschat card and borrow one for a review for us all?
[/quote]

You don't know how much I'd like to get a pair of these to test.. oh and to take on tour later on in the year!

There's also the option of getting them in to my bass department of Guitar Interactive Magazine. A video review in a pro studio would allows us to get an idea of what they are capable of. Oh and the magazine has a huge worldwide readership too, which is always a bonus. I've linked all 100+ reviews in the BassChat reviews section too.

Plug? Of course it is!

Edited March 19, 2015 by dood

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1426764849' post='2721654']
Main advantage of the sub is that it's £200 less expensive and lighter too - and that if you want an awesome yet little sub for your existing PA system you won't want the extra abilities of the FR800.
[/quote]
If you are buying two tops and effectively getting a hundred pounds discount, I'd see spending an extra hundred pounds over the basic sub to get a much more versatile third cab a better option.

[Ghost_Bass]

Who uses just one sub with two tops? I never figured out why people do that and companies sell that kind of setup... I don't want anything less than a pair of each cab for my band's PA. We're currently using a pair of RCF ART-312A pole mounted on a pair of dB Technologies Sub15.

Just one sub is bad for a pub band, where is it going to go? On the middle is the better place but it sits in front of the stage and there's no room on the pub for people to walk or stand. Goes to one side but it will be drowning the musicians near it with lows... one at each side will be able to be used at lower volume and make the stage and venue sound more balanced.

IMO, of course

EDIT: and one at each side occupy the same stage realestate if the top is mounted on it.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Ghost_Bass

[discreet]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1426789133' post='2722016']
Who uses just one sub with two tops?
[/quote]

Lots of people. Two subs cause problems - one sub does the job because low end at sub frequencies is non-directional, i.e. you can't tell where it's coming from, so you don't need two subs - you get your stereo from the tops.

[Bankai]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1426789133' post='2722016']
Who uses just one sub with two tops? I never figured out why people do that and companies sell that kind of setup... I don't want anything less than a pair of each cab for my band's PA.
Just one sub is bad for a pub band, where is it going to go? On the middle is the better place but it sits in front of the stage and there's no room on the pub for people to walk or stand. Goes to one side but it will be drowning the musicians near it with lows... one at each side will be able to be used at lower volume and make the stage and venue sound more balanced.
[/quote]
Having a sub on either side of the stage will nearly always result in a worse sound out front in smaller venues. Phase mashing and all that. One single decent sub will give much better results.

[alexclaber]

I know it's a bit confusing because no-one else really does this, but the LF800 doesn't really act as a subwoofer when being used with an FR800 rig. The FR800s are producing lows too - they're not being highpassed at ~100Hz like normal tops.

So many bands will only need two FR800s for their purposes. For louder/larger gigs they might add one LF800 to increase the total output of the system in the lower frequencies (which is always the region that runs out of output first). For larger still gigs they might add two LF800s.

The LF800s should be placed wherever suits but ideally against a solid wall or in a corner. With the lows coming from the FR800s and the LF800(s) you will not be able to discern the LF800 as a separate sound source and by locating it in a different place and ideally by some solid boundaries you'll energise the whole venue more evenly with low frequency content.

I got the idea of true full-range main speakers plus a sub purely for extra output/headroom from Meyer Sound!

http://www.meyersound.com/product/x-10/
http://www.meyersound.com/product/x-800/

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1426806396' post='2722321']
I know it's a bit confusing because no-one else really does this, but the LF800 doesn't really act as a subwoofer when being used with an FR800 rig. The FR800s are producing lows too - they're not being highpassed at ~100Hz like normal tops.

So many bands will only need two FR800s for their purposes. For louder/larger gigs they might add one LF800 to increase the total output of the system in the lower frequencies (which is always the region that runs out of output first). For larger still gigs they might add two LF800s.

The LF800s should be placed wherever suits but ideally against a solid wall or in a corner. With the lows coming from the FR800s and the LF800(s) you will not be able to discern the LF800 as a separate sound source and by locating it in a different place and ideally by some solid boundaries you'll energise the whole venue more evenly with low frequency content.

I got the idea of true full-range main speakers plus a sub purely for extra output/headroom from Meyer Sound!

[url="http://www.meyersound.com/product/x-10/"]http://www.meyersoun...m/product/x-10/[/url]
[url="http://www.meyersound.com/product/x-800/"]http://www.meyersoun.../product/x-800/[/url]
[/quote] I don't doubt that these are great PA .... but don't they have the ability of being amazing bass amplification too? With the DSP squeezing that bit extra out of the driver and enabling a small light and powerful cab punch in the same way the Bergantino IP and I guess the AER stuff does - I guess if you asked me where the bass amp market would end up going I would say there- small and light and with a power amp and DSP limiting etc to make the most of it. In that context it's not even that expensive - a secondhand ip112 still goes for about £1000 - if you can find someone willing to sell.
Don't underplay the bass guitar amplification possibilities - If I had know about this a month ago I would have placed an order! (as it was I picked up something else )

[JTUK]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1426792583' post='2722087']
Lots of people. Two subs cause problems - one sub does the job because low end at sub frequencies is non-directional, i.e. you can't tell where it's coming from, so you don't need two subs - you get your stereo from the tops.
[/quote]

Agree, lots do and I think it is valid if all you want to do is add a bit of depth.

Put it anywhere, as bass will go everywhere. Perfect scenario for a average sized pub
for when the tops get run a bit too hard with kick and keys..??

[FinnDave]

Would it work as a bass amp using a sansamp DI? If so, I am starting to look at my Super Twin & Ashdown ABMs in a new and less favourable light.

[JTUK]

Why would you put the Sansamp in front on it..??[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1426847593' post='2722569']
Would it work as a bass amp using a sansamp DI? If so, I am starting to look at my Super Twin & Ashdown ABMs in a new and less favourable light.
[/quote]

[FinnDave]

For tonal control? I don't know, fairly new to using anything other than traditional amps & cabs, bought a sansamp last week and have used it through the PA at a couple of rehearsals with impressive results. I was assuming that the unit would work in the same way as all other powered PA speakers I've come across and require a greater input than a bass alone can provide and also have no means of EQing the sound.

[JTUK]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1426847928' post='2722576']
For tonal control? I don't know, fairly new to using anything other than traditional amps & cabs, bought a sansamp last week and have used it through the PA at a couple of rehearsals with impressive results. I was assuming that the unit would work in the same way as all other powered PA speakers I've come across and require a greater input than a bass alone can provide and also have no means of EQing the sound.
[/quote]

You have to have a pre amp, but would you use a clean or driven sound.
If clean, then expert to hear a lot of things you might not want to hear..and you'll need to
be a very precise player to get away with that, IMO.
If dirty, then I don't understand why you'd want a clean rig to then add dirt..???
I think some people just use them most as gain units which is seriously over loading
the input stage in some regards, IME..
The other thing is no one wants sub bass on a stage if you are running FOH..
it is just another signal to clean up thru ambient mics... and over run into smaller
P.A's...IMO.

[FinnDave]

I'm looking at it as a light and powerful replacement for my current back line. I don't use much of the 'drive' on the sansamp, but like the sound it produces through the PA better than the ABM and Super Twin, plus a lot less to carry and store. Just considering the options available, as we always do when something new hits the market.

[discreet]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1426847593' post='2722569']
Would it work as a bass amp using a sansamp DI?
[/quote]

Yes it would - I have used various pedal preamps with a power amp with great results, the best (for me) being a Tech 21 VT Bass. The various flavours of SansAmp are good, you can even use a BDI-21 if you have one knocking about. The Zoom bass units are good, too.

Edited March 20, 2015 by discreet

[FinnDave]

Not sure what flavour of sans amp I have, will need to check when I get home.

[FinnDave]

Looked on thomann, standard tech 21 bass driver DI.

[discreet]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1426853566' post='2722715']
Looked on thomann, standard tech 21 bass driver DI.
[/quote]

That would work fine. Assuming you already like what it does, of course...

Edited March 20, 2015 by discreet

[FinnDave]

Oh yes,definitely a fan of my sansamp, and anything that allows me to cut down on the amount of gear I need to store and carry is a real plus. Food for thought.

[discreet]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1426854060' post='2722723']
Food for thought.
[/quote]

Definitely is, as the sansamp can go in your gigbag and the Barefaced is 15kg... one in each hand.

[largo]

I'd love to try & convince the guys in the band to go for the FR800's although we do play some larger gigs so might have to look at subs as well.
I think the problem with BF as well as some of the other "smaller" builders is getting a chance to hear or demo these locally and also getting spares & fix using a local technician. My biggest bother would be pulling £2K on a couple of PA speakers that we couldn't hear beforehand. It's a giant leap of faith!

Edited March 20, 2015 by largo