Do all professional musicians have their songs written as sheet music?

[ras52]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1426625655' post='2720113']
Correct:

[url="http://www.musicnotes.com/search/go?p=Q&lbc=musicnotes&uid=255758980&ts=custom&w=*&isort=globalpop&method=and&view=list&af=%20artist%3aelton_john&cnt=300"]http://www.musicnote...on_john&cnt=300[/url]
[/quote]

Dunno about Elton specifically, but a lot of retail "dot" music will have been transcribed after the fact.

[Drax]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1426671585' post='2720462']
Dunno about Elton specifically, but a lot of retail "dot" music will have been transcribed after the fact.
[/quote]

..and generally all transcribed by someone else's (often dodgy) ear.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1426669973' post='2720428']
I can imagine at least three different scenarios that a session player might encounter in a professional capacity.

1. The part is written out as notation to be played as scored.

2. The part exists only as a recording whether it is a synth part on a demo that's going to be replaced with "real" bass or someone else's bass part on a recording that is going to be performed live.

3. No part exists (except maybe in the mind of the songwriter) and you will be expected to come up with something appropriate for the piece. There might be a simple chord chart or might be a case of listening to what is already there and writing something to fit.

Each situation requires a different skill set. A truly versatile musician will be able to do all three, but it's up to the person arranging the session to pick players with the appropriate skills. Just as a musician who can't read is no good for a session where the part has been written out as notation, someone who can't quickly come up with a new baseline or improvise to a basic idea is useless if they are expected to be part of the writing process.
[/quote]
We have been here many times before, in reality the people who read well almost always have the ability to improvise too, there's always the tale of the guy who can play anything perfectly as long as it's on paper that can't jam a twelve bar but for every one of those there are a thousand sight readers that will blow you away within moments of some one calling out "give me a jazzy blues thing in Eb".

Chicken and egg IMO, those that can't read saying they never get reading gigs and those that read saying they would have lost half of their gigs if they couldn't read!

Edited March 18, 2015 by stingrayPete1977

[JTUK]

[quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1426625410' post='2720109']
[i]Desirable[/i] perhaps, but not a [i]necessary[/i] skill. It all depends on what kind of gigs you might get a call for. Suffice to say in 40 years of pro and semi-pro work, I've never been asked to read dots.
[/quote]

Really..??? Never been asked..??
That is surprising... IME.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1426665708' post='2720374']
Drum score is quite simple to learn...
[/quote]

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Sammers' timestamp='1426668805' post='2720414']
Considering Pino doesn't read music I guess he does "bluff" it, if you hire Pino it's cause you want that Pino sound - his ability to read wouldn't come into it I don't think.
[/quote]

Pino doesn't really have a 'sound' these days. I imagine he can do pretty much anything tonally.

He's just a natural player with great ears, taste and feel.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1426677826' post='2720576']
Pino doesn't really have a 'sound' these days. I imagine he can do pretty much anything tonally.

He's just a natural player with great ears, taste and feel.
[/quote]

To be fair this is not a criticism of 'Pino', he is a great player and deserves all of his success. But, when he has layed down a bass track does anyone put it into dots or does it just stay in his head. In fact are any top flight musicians 'fussy' about transcribing their work accurately, because I would be!

[ras52]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1426685005' post='2720735']
To be fair this is not a criticism of 'Pino', he is a great player and deserves all of his success. But, when he has layed down a bass track does anyone put it into dots or does it just stay in his head. In fact are any top flight musicians 'fussy' about transcribing their work accurately, because I would be!
[/quote]

If the player isn't a reader they can only take it on trust that the transcription is accurate! Bit like an author in translation, I suppose.

[JTUK]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1426685005' post='2720735']
To be fair this is not a criticism of 'Pino', he is a great player and deserves all of his success. But, when he has layed down a bass track does anyone put it into dots or does it just stay in his head. In fact are any top flight musicians 'fussy' about transcribing their work accurately, because I would be!
[/quote]

If he uses dots he might well save into dots... but he may well have another system that works for him.
When you get to his level... you get him in because of what he brings, so you are pretty fluid
with what you want but you direct the bass rather than write it out.
With that in mind, unless you are going to tour and need those specific parts played, you might have
the Tour MD score it... but the direction and ethos has already been decided so you get a guy who can
'cop' the same as the original.
The band might have a set score' for reference but nothing cast in stone if you never used that approach when writing
it... IMO.

[lowregisterhead]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1426675610' post='2720533']
Really..??? Never been asked..??
That is surprising... IME.
[/quote]

Nope. Never. Clearly we move in different circles!

[Sammers]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1426685005' post='2720735']
To be fair this is not a criticism of 'Pino', he is a great player and deserves all of his success. But, when he has layed down a bass track does anyone put it into dots or does it just stay in his head. In fact are any top flight musicians 'fussy' about transcribing their work accurately, because I would be!
[/quote]

It think it must vary greatly between artists, some do note their lines down and some don't.

If you skip to about 3:05 in the video below Billy Sheehan explains what happened when he recorded the bass parts for the winery dogs records.
A neat insight and I'd imagine what happened to him happens to a lot of artists out there

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pbqGvef0dM[/media]

[stingrayPete1977]

Even if some one else does the dots later don't under estimate the player of those dots, say a reading player in the strictly band gets dots to something Pino played that player still has his or her ears and understanding of the dots to correct it on the fly.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1426671585' post='2720462']


Dunno about Elton specifically, but a lot of retail "dot" music will have been transcribed after the fact.
[/quote]
Of course.

[fretmeister]

I started reading a couple of years ago when I joined my daughters local music trust orchestra.

I've been playing for almost 30 years and that ear & jam experience was generally useless when I had sheet music thrown at me every week - especially when it wasn't in the original key but had been transposed and re-arranged to take into account the very wide ability range of the kids that attend, and often to edit long tunes down to 5 mins or so.

It really has opened up my musical world - not just about the dots themselves but also the subtleties of proper notation, the dynamics and feel that tab can't do.

My kids' music teacher uses the 'Abracadabra' books so I bought the Double bass versions. I'm ignoring all the bow stuff of course and I'm following the learning progression / reading 1 exercise at a time. My kids do 10 mins practice a day so I try to do the same.

The improvement of the 'little and often' approach really seems to work.

[DaveFry]

[url="http://www.rabbitwho.com/gal_australian_tour.php"]http://www.rabbitwho...ralian_tour.php[/url]
Click on the second thumbnail and you can see Rabbit's chart for " Baba O Reily " ( sic )
Further down the page there are two shots of his chart pad on a MUSIC STAND
Therefore , Daltrey and Townshend only hire non-professionals .
Ergo , Pino must be a professional non-professional .

[yorks5stringer]

Ironically I went to Jazz Jam on Sunday at a town synonymous with a large music festival...! I spoke to the organiser to see if he would let me play bass on a couple of tunes, who said, "Oh, we like to know who's coming in advance so we can give them the scores to read, but do you know The Chicken?" As it happens I do and he said, "well we have the score so you can read from it." I said, I don't need the score, I know the tune" He said," well how do you know the intros and endings?" I repeated, "I know the Tune!" So I got to play The Chicken and a Jazzblues in C right at the end of the night. The House Bassist read everything, even some Amy Winehouse tunes which a woman was singing...I just felt they would have sounded more natural not read. I reckon if he was good enough to play Jazz changes all night(albeit read) he should have been capable of a couple of Amy Winehouse tunes.......

Edited March 19, 2015 by yorks5stringer

[booboo]

The thing is though that the bloke who was glued to the dots all night could play any tune in the book, but if you sit in 'by ear' you are limited to the stuff you know well - unless you have big enough ears and a big enough knowledge of tunes to cop all the changes on the fly. Kudos to the bassists (and there are a few) who realy can do this well with any tune, but I'm not one of them!

[mentalextra]

But if you are creating 'original' work, especially at the top level of the industry, how do you remember stuff if you can't write it down. I would imagine that for example 'Pino' creates a huge number of [i]original[/i] bass lines every year for various artists in various styles. Not forgetting how these things 'develop' over time and being called back in to further work on projects. Pino must have an outstanding memory because I will probably forget this conversation in 2hrs time

[DaveFry]

Do you mean how do you remember stuff
a) if you can't transcribe your own recording ( or a transciption is no use because one might not read )
or b ) how does one increase one's memory skills . ?

For a ) I would reply take advantage of the new silicon chip technology thing . When I can't work out what I have just played into my DAW I just convert the MIDI information to notation . This is for digital piano , but any monophonic line such as bass can be converted from audio to MIDI to notation in seconds .

For b ) I would reply that memory is a skill that can be cultivated and grown just like any other . If you devote time to it every day any skill such as perfecting a golf swing , playing an instrument , writing lyrics , learning a foreign language , meditation stamina or improving one's memory will slowly and surely grow .

Stevie Wonder has no problem remembering his vast back catalogue because his memory skills have evolved since the day he started and he still uses those skills every day . The more you do it the better you get .

[BigRedX]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1426754815' post='2721491']
But if you are creating 'original' work, especially at the top level of the industry, how do you remember stuff if you can't write it down. I would imagine that for example 'Pino' creates a huge number of [i]original[/i] bass lines every year for various artists in various styles. Not forgetting how these things 'develop' over time and being called back in to further work on projects. Pino must have an outstanding memory because I will probably forget this conversation in 2hrs time
[/quote]

I think if you write the music or instrumental part that you play it is very much easier to remember it. There are songs that I wrote back in the 70s and early 80s that I even though I haven't played them in the last 30 years I could probably play right now and get mostly right. A quick listen to the recording a couple of times would get me the rest of the way there.

Conversely when I played in a covers band there were songs that if I didn't play every week either at a gig or rehearsal I would completely forget in no time.

[stingrayPete1977]

When I listen to my old originals stuff I think "is that me?", sometimes for the better actually, pre basschat, pre over thinking it days

[Dood]

I know a chap who has penned a few number ones for major artists and doesn't mind admitting he cant read music at all.

[Dood]

[quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1426625410' post='2720109']
[i]Desirable[/i] perhaps, but not a [i]necessary[/i] skill. It all depends on what kind of gigs you might get a call for. Suffice to say in 40 years of pro and semi-pro work, I've never been asked to read dots.
[/quote]

Similarly, the musicians who I thought would hand me notation actually expected me to learn by ear. If I were lucky I got a rough crib chart, but either way, it was still one day of rehearsal then straight out to gig with 6 different artists. Frankly I took that as a compliment to my skill and attitude!

[Lord Sausage]

When you do 'west end' stuff, I find the score is just for rehearsal purposes really. You get it in advance so it's a quick way to learn the material. On the gig it's just a guide really. You don't, well I don't, just sit there reading it and playing. You more or less know it at that point.