One For The Blues Lovers

[Mykesbass]

I've just posted a blog Are we Loving the Blues to Death? in order to hopefully kick off a conversation about how we can help stop the Blues from stagnating (much as Country has by re-inventing itself as Americana, and folk has by, well, just being more modern and interesting I guess). I have voiced an opinion at the end, but it is more as a conversation starter rather than a strongly held point of view. I'd love to hear how others see this so please have a read and post either on here or on the blog itself. Thanks for your time.

[url="http://modlock.co.uk/?p=112"]Are we Loving the Blues to Death?[/url]

[Silvia Bluejay]

Thanks for that - I'm tweeting your blog to Basschat's followers as we speak

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1427058564' post='2725308']
Thanks for that - I'm tweeting your blog to Basschat's followers as we speak
[/quote]
Thanks Bluejay

[louisthebass]

I had a read of the article on the link, and I think the Blues would be diluted far too much if elements of trip hop and dubstep and any of the other modern stuff came into it. It doesn't need it - I'd rather see a band knocking out a raw, gritty, traditional Chicago Blues than something that has moved it on into the 21st Century and (IMO) doesn't fit the genre.

It comes across that I'm being too much of a traditionalist, but I was born about the time of the British Blues Boom of the early 1960's, and didn't get into it until about the late 1980's, so I think it is possible for a younger generation to get into people like Muddy Waters, the Kings, Paul Butterfield, Al Kooper, Mike Bloomfield, John Mayall, etc...

The main problem is that there isn't any programming on TV and radio (apart from Paul Jones show on R2 on Monday nights) that promotes the Blues in this country.

[pfretrock]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1427286558' post='2728239']
The main problem is that there isn't any programming on TV and radio (apart from Paul Jones show on R2 on Monday nights) that promotes the Blues in this country.
[/quote]

So you missed Bernard Doherty's 'Ladies Night' on PlanetRock last week. He does have a weekly blues-power show. Last week's show was female blues artists.
If anyone caught this show, do you know who sang Can't Find My Way Home, the last but one track? It was playing as I drove home, Doherty Pi**ed off at 7:48 ("See ya") and the last three tracks played unannounced.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1427286558' post='2728239']
I had a read of the article on the link, and I think the Blues would be diluted far too much if elements of trip hop and dubstep and any of the other modern stuff came into it. It doesn't need it - I'd rather see a band knocking out a raw, gritty, traditional Chicago Blues than something that has moved it on into the 21st Century and (IMO) doesn't fit the genre.

It comes across that I'm being too much of a traditionalist, but I was born about the time of the British Blues Boom of the early 1960's, and didn't get into it until about the late 1980's, so I think it is possible for a younger generation to get into people like Muddy Waters, the Kings, Paul Butterfield, Al Kooper, Mike Bloomfield, John Mayall, etc...

The main problem is that there isn't any programming on TV and radio (apart from Paul Jones show on R2 on Monday nights) that promotes the Blues in this country.
[/quote]
[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1427288583' post='2728294']
So you missed Bernard Doherty's 'Ladies Night' on PlanetRock last week. He does have a weekly blues-power show. Last week's show was female blues artists.
If anyone caught this show, do you know who sang Can't Find My Way Home, the last but one track? It was playing as I drove home, Doherty Pi**ed off at 7:48 ("See ya") and the last three tracks played unannounced.
[/quote]

First up, I think there is a lack of mainstream exposure - pfretrock, the show on Planet rock is only going to preach to the converted, or grab a tiny number of younger rock fans who haven't changed station when it comes on.

Louisthebass - nothing wrong with you or I liking the traditional stuff, I just genuinely worry that the new generation of players are seeing us as an audience so are playing to us, not their peers, therefore the Blues isn't going to continue to develop and will never reach the level of popularity it enjoyed when the likes of John Mayall brought it into Rock & Roll for the first time.

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1427288583' post='2728294']
So you missed Bernard Doherty's 'Ladies Night' on PlanetRock last week. He does have a weekly blues-power show. Last week's show was female blues artists.
If anyone caught this show, do you know who sang Can't Find My Way Home, the last but one track? It was playing as I drove home, Doherty Pi**ed off at 7:48 ("See ya") and the last three tracks played unannounced.
[/quote]

Didn't catch it, but one of these?

Skip the first three minutes:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4tJiyU_gjY[/media]

More Nu-Country than Blues:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV3u6kS2mmE[/media]

[AntLockyer]

I think there are some cool young blues artists playing the blues and being influenced by the modern world. Jarekus Singleton and Gary Clarke jnr both are modern I their own way.

[ezbass]

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1427288583' post='2728294']


So you missed Bernard Doherty's 'Ladies Night' on PlanetRock last week. He does have a weekly blues-power show. Last week's show was female blues artists.
If anyone caught this show, do you know who sang Can't Find My Way Home, the last but one track? It was playing as I drove home, Doherty Pi**ed off at 7:48 ("See ya") and the last three tracks played unannounced.
[/quote]It was Bonnie Raitt http://www.planetrock.com/music/?date=2015-03-19&time=19

[ezbass]

I can't help thinking that blues is alive and well, just not in the UK. Take a look at Robben Ford's current touring schedule, plenty of continental and US dates but only one in the UK. This is also true of other blues based music acts, lots of gigs in Europe and North America, but bugger all here. Having not been to any of these offshore gigs I can't speak of the audience demographic, but this more, non domestic weighted touring scenario has always been thus and can only assume that they have a new audience always coming through. So I think it's not a matter of loving the blues too much, rather not enough.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1427307276' post='2728688']
I can't help thinking that blues is alive and well, just not in the UK. Take a look at Robben Ford's current touring schedule, plenty of continental and US dates but only one in the UK. This is also true of other blues based music acts, lots of gigs in Europe and North America, but bugger all here. Having not been to any of these offshore gigs I can't speak of the audience demographic, but this more, non domestic weighted touring scenario has always been thus and can only assume that they have a new audience always coming through. So I think it's not a matter of loving the blues too much, rather not enough.
[/quote]

Yep, agree with this - the UK doesn't really appear to be on the radar for a lot of visiting U.S. Blues acts any more. I know Joe Bonamassa has done a string of dates at Hammersmith recently, and Robert Cray was over here and did a few dates last year, but that was probably about it.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='pfretrock' timestamp='1427288583' post='2728294']
So you missed Bernard Doherty's 'Ladies Night' on PlanetRock last week. He does have a weekly blues-power show. Last week's show was female blues artists.
If anyone caught this show, do you know who sang Can't Find My Way Home, the last but one track? It was playing as I drove home, Doherty Pi**ed off at 7:48 ("See ya") and the last three tracks played unannounced.
[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up on this show - TBH I didn't even know it existed, I'll give it a listen :-)

[timmo]

Chantel Mcgregor has a reasonably big tour of the UK. She is good in my opinion. She isn`t in here 30`s yet, and been doing blues for a few years. There are probably loads more i don`t know about.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1427301757' post='2728599']
Louisthebass - nothing wrong with you or I liking the traditional stuff, I just genuinely worry that the new generation of players are seeing us as an audience so are playing to us, not their peers, therefore the Blues isn't going to continue to develop and will never reach the level of popularity it enjoyed when the likes of John Mayall brought it into Rock & Roll for the first time.
[/quote]

I take your point, and I assume what you're describing in your article is probably what needed to happen to Jazz when it broke away from the "Standards" and went from being an acoustic art form to being electric, thus spawning off Jazz Rock / Fusion etc.? There was (maybe still is) a lot of opposition to that change - maybe it was a good thing to happen (I like both sides of it by the way) and it's probably kept Jazz alive, but maybe that's another discussion for another time.

Guys like Robben Ford and Robert Cray, have moved the Blues from what it was back in the past era so it's not the standard 12 or 8 bar format (in most cases) - I just can't help feeling that anything too far outside that would be a bit like putting too many flavours in a really nice dish?

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1427310531' post='2728774']
I take your point, and I assume what you're describing in your article is probably what needed to happen to Jazz when it broke away from the "Standards" and went from being an acoustic art form to being electric, thus spawning off Jazz Rock / Fusion etc.? There was (maybe still is) a lot of opposition to that change - maybe it was a good thing to happen (I like both sides of it by the way) and it's probably kept Jazz alive, but maybe that's another discussion for another time.

Guys like Robben Ford and Robert Cray, have moved the Blues from what it was back in the past era so it's not the standard 12 or 8 bar format (in most cases) - I just can't help feeling that anything too far outside that would be a bit like putting too many flavours in a really nice dish?
[/quote]

Good point with the jazz reference that shows that the new can come along and doesn't have to kill off the old. Robben Ford and Robert Cray are both great, and Cray certainly moved things on, but, wait for it, that was 1986!! Scary to think where those 29 years went!

[louisthebass]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1427311131' post='2728788']
Good point with the jazz reference that shows that the new can come along and doesn't have to kill off the old. Robben Ford and Robert Cray are both great, and Cray certainly moved things on, but, wait for it, that was 1986!! Scary to think where those 29 years went!
[/quote]

Yep - tell me about it I first heard "Young Bob" (now the not so "Young Bob" anyway) back then with "I Guess I Showed Her". "Strong Persuader" is probably still my fave Cray album

Another outfit a couple of mates of mine have introduced me to is the Tedeschi / Trucks Band:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9I6lQNK6Ok"]https://www.youtube....h?v=R9I6lQNK6Ok[/url]

Really like this band

Edited March 25, 2015 by louisthebass

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1427311761' post='2728802']


Another outfit a couple of mates of mine have introduced me to is the Tedeschi / Trucks Band:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9I6lQNK6Ok"]https://www.youtube....h?v=R9I6lQNK6Ok[/url]

Really like this band :-)
[/quote]

Love them (although poor old Derek could do with some stage presence lessons)!!

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1427306212' post='2728665']
I think there are some cool young blues artists playing the blues and being influenced by the modern world. Jarekus Singleton and Gary Clarke jnr both are modern I their own way.
[/quote]

Thanks - I'll check them out.

[ezbass]

Off Topic I know but I have to make mention of your avatar Mykesbass, I remember A1 stores well, just on the corner of East Street.

Edited March 25, 2015 by ezbass

[Thump]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1427306212' post='2728665']
I think there are some cool young blues artists playing the blues and being influenced by the modern world. Jarekus Singleton and Gary Clarke jnr both are modern I their own way.
[/quote]

Don't forget Ainsley Lister , he has some real tasteful stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxJsddf8i1E

[skankdelvar]

This potentially such a huge topic I'm going to restrict myself to a few observations.

* Country music was - and still is - a huge mainstream market in the US. The blues is not. Possibly because young Americans continue to relate to Country music's themes, seeing them as reflective of their daily lives. The blues has not enjoyed this continuity of widespread acceptance.

* Paul Oliver makes a plausible case that the blues 'died' in the mid-60's when its natural constituency and many of its practitioners migrated to soul, then funk, then rap. One might argue that rap is blues in its modern guise - hypnotic urban rhythms, harsh contemporary lyrical content and performers who enjoy a resonance with their community.

* Country's continuing success does not stem from piecemeal replacement of one or two instrumental components. The form underwent an evolution into country-flavoured rock and a complete change of performer image from folksy Uncles and Aunties to hot chicks and cool dudes with egregiously large pick-ups

* UK radio has narrowed its musical focus over the last 30 years. Soft country gets daytime airplay on R2. Blues does not.

* In the UK (unlike the US) the label 'country music' is still perceived by many as awful, whiny sh*t. Any successful practitioners of the form either play to niche audiences or deliver 'ironic' perfomances or have re-labelled themselves for wider markets. Blues continues to perform for a niche market.

* Many believe that the UK Blues audience is mired in tradition and constrained by 'The Blues Police'. To an extent, this is true but only if performers continue to play venues that specialise in Blues. Get in front of a different, younger audience and they'll respond well, particularly if one eschews the same old songs.

* Many UK blues bands focus on musical delivery and instrumental breaks at the expense of audience communication and engagement. The successful Blues bands bring something to the mix beyond faithful re-treads of old chestnuts. In other words, something more than pasteurised noodling around 'Keys to the Highway' and staring at the guitar neck.

* Younger audiences do not perceive Jack White (in White Stripes mode) as occupying the same musical space as Eric Clapton.

* Too many under-rehearsed hobby blues bands with predictable setlists and arrangements are clouding perceptions. Not all blues is tubby old white guys (like me) knocking out the same ploddy rhythms. But the kids don't know that.


My conclusion is that the blues will continue to be performed and consumed but it is moving into the same closed box as Jazz. If that's the case, we should stop worrying and simply enjoy it as a curio.

There's no law that says musical genres should be immortal. Ragtime was huge one time, but it doesn't sell sh*t these days.

[color=#ffffff]*[/color]

Edited March 25, 2015 by skankdelvar

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1427316092' post='2728905']

My conclusion is that the blues will continue to be performed and consumed but it is moving into the same closed box as Jazz. If that's the case, we should stop worrying and simply enjoy it as a curio.
[color=#ffffff]*[/color]
[/quote]

Some nice points Skank. The one I've quoted is probably the crux of the matter, and the one that I hope can be addressed by a younger generation, much like the folk examples I gave (point taken about country though).

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1427317882' post='2728935']
Some nice points Skank. The one I've quoted is probably the crux of the matter, and the one that I hope can be addressed by a younger generation, much like the folk examples I gave (point taken about country though).
[/quote]

I didn't mention folk mostly because I knows nothing about that folk music

TBH, I think the worst thing we can do is try to guide the music's direction. We have to let circumstances produce an outcome - otherwise we become unpaid curators and who's to say we're right.

Better, perhaps, just to put an outfit together that aims to avoid all the cliches and see what happens. I have a theory about using the blues as it was originally intended - ie. contemporary social commentary.

Sadly the idea of a '43 Tesco stores closing Blues' doesn't sound [i]quite[/i] right. But not as 'not right' as a white, middle-aged computer programmer from Milton Keynes singing about being on a convict chain gang in Alabama.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1427312871' post='2728818']
Off Topic I know but I have to make mention of your avatar Mykesbass, I remember A1 stores well, just on the corner of East Street.
[/quote]yep, that's the one, worked there from the age of 13 - 1977!

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mykesbass

[AntLockyer]

My mate Matt does proper trad blues about sh*t going on in the real world (Brixton) its an interesting thing and very British. The Blues outfit I'm in tends towards songs with appropriate lyrics
[color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]
Well, I fly off the handle
A little too quick[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=proxnov-reg, arial, sans-serif][size=1]
Guess you could call me a nervous man
For the last week or two
It don't take too much
To make me wanna raise my hand[/size][/font][/color]