timmo Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 You get long scale, short scale and others in between. Some have 20 frets, others have 24. They can be the same length. How do you get the same note from a 20 fret as a 24? That should make some of the notes bigger on the fretbaord with only 20. Basically, how do you get the same note with a bigger fret, and how big, or small can the fret spacing be, before it becomes a totally different note to the note it was intended? I hope that makes some sort of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) [quote name='timmo' timestamp='1427125301' post='2726058'] You get long scale, short scale and others in between. Some have 20 frets, others have 24. They can be the same length. How do you get the same note from a 20 fret as a 24? That should make some of the notes bigger on the fretbaord with only 20. Basically, how do you get the same note with a bigger fret, and how big, or small can the fret spacing be, before it becomes a totally different note to the note it was intended? I hope that makes some sort of sense. [/quote] Taking the points one by one: You get long scale, short scale and others in between. [i][color=#000080] Yep[/color][/i] Some have 20 frets, others have 24. They can be the same length. How do you get the same note from a 20 fret as a 24? [color=#0000cd][i]You don't. They will both give the same note at any given fret. So they will both give you a "C" on the 8th fret on the "E" string etc., but the 24 fret neck with give you more notes available than the 20 fret neck will (assuming you actually play way up there.) In reality this only gives you 4 more notes than on the 20 fret neck, as the 4 highest notes on the D string are already there on the G string.[/i] [i]A 20 fret bass is the same over all length as a 24 fret bass. The difference is a 24 fret bass will have a shorter body and a longer neck. The 20 fret bass will generally have a longer/bigger body and short neck.[/i][/color] That should make some of the notes bigger on the fretbaord with only 20. Basically, how do you get the same note with a bigger fret, and how big, or small can the fret spacing be, before it becomes a totally different note to the note it was intended? I hope that makes some sort of sense. [color=#0000cd][i]The length of the fret is dependant on the length of the string from the nut to the bridge. The distance from the nut to the 12th fret is 1/2 the length of the distance from nut to bridge. The guy who designs the bass deals with this, so you don't need to worry about it (normally).[/i][/color] Edited March 23, 2015 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 It's all about ratios. The 12th fret will always be half way along the scale length (nut to bridge saddle), regardless of what that scale length is. Assuming tuning and intonation are set correctly you get the same note at the same fret position regardless of the scale length if the frets are installed at the correct places for the particular scale length. The spacing between the frets is identical for two fretboards of the same scale length, regardless of number of frets, it's just that the 20 fret fingerboard stops sooner. Probably TMI here: http://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/fret.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Ahh, thanks. I only own 2 basses, and both are 24. I understand now. I knew it would be something fairly simple, but i just could not get my head around it. Thanks for the replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Damn! I was wanting to help, but Grangur and Neepheid have beaten me to it and both have explained it far mor eloquently than I could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1427126693' post='2726094'] Damn! I was wanting to help, but Grangur and Neepheid have beaten me to it and both have explained it far mor eloquently than I could have. [/quote] Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1427126838' post='2726098'] Sorry! [/quote] Think nothing of it my learned friend, tis but a scratch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Exellent explanations. If I could just add that a scale length should not just be checked by measuring the distance between nut and bridge. Measure between nut and fifth fret. Double that should give you the length to the twelfth fret and double that should be your scale length to the bridge. I just add that after my experience with the rebuild of my SGC Nanyo. I and lots of others were of the impression these basses had 34" scales, and most do. I did all the measurements above and it came out at 33.5". Je ne camprend pas. Had I put the bridge in at 34" the it would not have intonated properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Just thought I'd throw my 2penneth in When I were a lad, we had to make basses all proper like, with pencil & paper & things for workin' it all out much brain ache Then came calculators followed by computers, then most recently - the internet & GOOGLE, (other search engines are also available), where it takes just a few clicks to be presented with all the data you could wish for. Here's a good one:- http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator They say life was simple back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 [quote name='timmo' timestamp='1427126560' post='2726090'] Ahh, thanks. I only own 2 basses, and both are 24. I understand now. I knew it would be something fairly simple, but i just could not get my head around it. Thanks for the replies [/quote] Take one of your 24 fret, 34" scale basses. Tune it down one whole tone to DGCF. Put a capo on the second fret. Now you have a 22 fret, 30.3" scale bass tuned EADG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Something else I have learned today. Now I see the point of capos. Thanks for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 [quote name='timmo' timestamp='1427142542' post='2726431'] Something else I have learned today. Now I see the point of capos. Thanks for that [/quote] Thats not the really main point of capos. The purpose of a capo is to change the pitch of the open strings. This is particularly useful for guitarists who want to change the key of a song but still be able to use chord shapes that make use of open strings. They are less common amongst bassists (I've never seen a bass player use one) but they can be useful as a way of trying out what a shorter scale bass feels like to play as EssentialTension suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Thanks Uncle As usual, i learn something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Guitarists also use a capo to produce a different quality of sound from the strings, a different timbre, without changing key. This is especially helpful when two guitarists work together using different inversions with one using a capo say five frets up and playing appropriate chord shapes while the other uses open string chords. I'd say that is the main purpose of a capo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I'd say the main purpose of a capo on a guitar is to change key to make fingering more convenient, so that a singer can be accommodated without having to play in something like Ab. But what would I know, I've only been to hundreds of open mic nights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not having been to an open mic night since about 1980, I have made the foolish error of judging guitarists not according to open mic night standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 There you go. I say potato, you say tomato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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