plunkrock Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I have recently joined a band that has a few support gigs lined up, I sold my Orange TB recently which was left over after my last band (I wasn't planning on being in another band any time soon) and have just picked up a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 to replace it. However! The gigs we are playing will all be quite small and I will be playing through other people's cabs, I am just wondering if anyone has some tips to make sure I don't damage anyone's stuff? The Genz Benz puts out a whopping 900W @ 4 Ohms and I will be running a fairly dirty pre into the effects loop on the amp, I'm hoping the lovely dirt I get from the pedal will be distinguishable from the sound of an unhappy cab! Most things I have read say just keep an ear out, but I was wondering if anyone here had any more advice - I would be mortified if I damaged a cab. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 hmmm... my number one strategy for not killing my cabs is never letting anyone else use them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1427199692' post='2726962'] hmmm... my number one strategy for not killing my cabs is never letting anyone else use them! [/quote] Plus about a billion... otherwise just make sure you keep an eye (ear?) on the volume and if funny noises happen, stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Short of sticking an RMS voltmeter on the outputs on the amp and turning down if it sits above a certain voltage for a while there's not really much you can do. Your best friend in this situation is experience (so knowing what you can realistically expect from a given cab) and good ears - or buying a nice cab of your own that's small and light enough to take to the gigs and robust enough to handle your needs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkrock Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 I do feel bad using other people's gear but it seems to be the done thing amongst these guys. These are small scale gigs so even putting my financial and travel situations aside, I think less moving gear on stage is desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkrock Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1427200409' post='2726975'] Short of sticking an RMS voltmeter on the outputs on the amp and turning down if it sits above a certain voltage for a while there's not really much you can do. Your best friend in this situation is experience (so knowing what you can realistically expect from a given cab) and good ears - or buying a nice cab of your own that's small and light enough to take to the gigs and robust enough to handle your needs! [/quote] My dream cab is a Super Twin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1427200409' post='2726975'] Short of sticking an RMS voltmeter on the outputs on the amp and turning down if it sits above a certain voltage for a while there's not really much you can do. Your best friend in this situation is experience (so knowing what you can realistically expect from a given cab) and good ears - or buying a nice cab of your own that's small and light enough to take to the gigs and robust enough to handle your needs! [/quote] sounds like a Big Baby 2 would do very nicely I'll never part with mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1427200409' post='2726975'] ...a nice cab of your own that's small and light enough to take to the gigs and robust enough to handle your needs! [/quote] Good idea Alex - do you have any suggestions as to where one could purchase such a cab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1427201996' post='2727018'] Good idea Alex - do you have any suggestions as to where one could purchase such a cab? [/quote] TKS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='plunkrock' timestamp='1427199460' post='2726957'] I have recently joined a band that has a few support gigs lined up, I sold my Orange TB recently which was left over after my last band (I wasn't planning on being in another band any time soon) and have just picked up a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 to replace it. However! The gigs we are playing will all be quite small and I will be playing through other people's cabs, I am just wondering if anyone has some tips to make sure I don't damage anyone's stuff? The Genz Benz puts out a whopping 900W @ 4 Ohms and I will be running a fairly dirty pre into the effects loop on the amp, I'm hoping the lovely dirt I get from the pedal will be distinguishable from the sound of an unhappy cab! Most things I have read say just keep an ear out, but I was wondering if anyone here had any more advice - I would be mortified if I damaged a cab. Cheers [/quote] Ooohhhh... difficult. as distortion is a double headed beast, IMO. The good thing is that you are running it thru the FX and the other good pointer is that you need to run a clean sound as well. I would make sure the clean sound is levelled the same as the distortion and not used as a gain boost. Unfortunately, many people use these pedals as exactly that and can put so much level into the front of the amp that you don't really know what you are hearing..the amp/gain signal straining/overloading or the pedal doing what it does, If it were me... I'd set up for clean and listen to the rig and how it performs, I'd give it my max attack that I would likely do on the gig and see if the speakers bottom out. If it cope with that, I'd level the distorted signal and assume all will be well as you have prooved a test didn't overload the cab. Thankfully, you seem a considerate chap. Hopefully the cab supplied will be more than a 210 and you can put some bass back thru the mons for yourself. Then just eq the level with the drums for onstage volume and do the adjustments with the monitors.. Make sure you soundcheck a song at full beans so you don't have to go back to the amp during the set as you don't have enough level. I hate sound checks where ppl don't put enough time into levels and so turn up thru their gig... what part of sound check do they not understand.. even if it is mainly for stage mixes..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkrock Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Cheers for the input JTUK! The preamp I am using is pretty dirty even at "clean", but it has a headphone out, so hopefully I can use that to identify if it is clipping the power amp. There is a boost on the unit too, but luckily that's the only pedal I'm running (besides my tuner) and it is always on, so at least that is less complicated than it could be with volume levels etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest monsterthompson Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 HPF can help. It could also clean up the sound in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkrock Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='monsterthompson' timestamp='1427219346' post='2727461'] HPF can help. It could also clean up the sound in the room. [/quote] Ah yeah! Maybe a micro-thumpinator? Used to have one of those too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Big tip - before you start your set, check if there's a tweeter on their cab, and turn it off. This is realistically the only thing you will likely blow up. Speakers in bass cabs can take a LOT of stick before they die. If you can't turn that off, you maybe want to check you don't rag the input of the amp too hard as it could generate nasty distortion (often not the nice valvey type) which is often the thing that kills tweeters. Lots of amps have 'clip lights' to show when they are starting to max out on the input stage. Turn down the input gain to avoid this. Class D amps usually distort horribly when you overload the inputs and could deffo kill a tweeter. You'll probably be able to hear I've never understood this whole 'never let anyone else use your gear' thing. Honestly, I've done hundreds of gigs with shared backline and never once seen a bass speaker blown up. If there's one thing I utterly loathe it's the guy in the second support act who rocks up with his massive SVT rig and insists he uses it for his set but will not help save time in changeovers by letting other people use it. Consequently it takes ages to change over and everyone after him gets a shorter set time. Obviously it's his cab so his decision, but seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1427201996' post='2727018'] Good idea Alex - do you have any suggestions as to where one could purchase such a cab? [/quote] Oooh you little rascal. I see what you did there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='Reverend' timestamp='1427226178' post='2727607'] Big tip - [b]before you start your set, check if there's a tweeter on their cab, and turn it off. This is realistically the only thing you will likely blow up. Speakers in bass cabs can take a LOT of stick before they die[/b]. If you can't turn that off, you maybe want to check you don't rag the input of the amp too hard as it could generate nasty distortion (often not the nice valvey type) which is often the thing that kills tweeters. Lots of amps have 'clip lights' to show when they are starting to max out on the input stage. .............. [/quote] Don't agree with not being able to blow speakers... I've known quite a few instances relatively recently. That is why I like to always be able to hear the entire bass range thru a cab and why I'm not a fan of distortion, I want to be hearing when/if I am pushing it hard but when I hired out a rig I should have known someone would turn up with a VT pedal and use it as a ridiculous volume pedal into the front of the amp. I had to back the input gain right off but the guy using it wouldn't have given that any thought.. He ran the amp as loud thru the pedal at 9 o clock of gain and 9 on master as everyone else did off 1 o clock and 1 o clock ..and it was thru a 750w plus rig. He didn't seem to understand that he was waaaay too loud for the stage as well....and he ran a distortion signal all the time. If you ever wonder why rehearsal rigs are shot it is because people like that use a pedal to get more volume out of the input stage and basically trash the rig because they don't know what they are doing, can hear nothing, and the gear isn't theirs either so what does it matter..?? So, I wouldn't trust them with cabs unsupervised.. IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1427233777' post='2727822'] Don't agree with not being able to blow speakers... I've known quite a few instances relatively recently. ... So, I wouldn't trust them with cabs unsupervised.. IME. [/quote] +1. I think the supervision thing is the key. I would have no hesitation in walking on stage and turning a bass rig down if i thought my kit was at risk. EDIT: So maybe make it plain you will absolutely go with the wishes of the kind kit-lender if they think you are getting too loud through their cab. Edited March 24, 2015 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkrock Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1427235512' post='2727844'] EDIT: So maybe make it plain you will absolutely go with the wishes of the kind kit-lender if they think you are getting too loud through their cab. [/quote] Absolutely - respect goes to the person providing the cab! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Deep bass is your enemy here. Anything above 80Hz or so is unlikely to exceed the excursion limits of most speakers and this is what is going to damage most of them. This means rolling off the bass is going to be your best bet of keeping away from the point where the speaker gets damaged. A Thumpinator or similar bass filter (high pass filter) as mentioned will be a great addition and/or roll off the bass with your eq. Really avoid things like octavers or anything which gives you extra bass. The next thing is to watch your volume, if the drums are unmiked and you are slotting in just below them in volume then it is moderately unlikely you will be using too much power. Most cabs will more or less match a drummer with 200W or less driving them. Avoid 4ohm speakers, doubling the impedance will roughly halve the power your amp produces. In the end there are no guarantees though, these are just ways of reducing risk, if you put 900W through a 250W speaker you are going to damage it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Doesn't the Genz have a HPF built in (defeatable by the deep switch)? I remember our Shep once trying a Microthumpinator with a Streamliner and there being no difference, only to do some research and discover that the Streamliner and Shuttle heads already have one built in! I can't remember the cutoff frequency, but I think it was higher on the .0 series, then lowered to something like 30Hz for the .2 series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Reverend' timestamp='1427226178' post='2727607'] I've never understood this whole 'never let anyone else use your gear' thing. Honestly, I've done hundreds of gigs with shared backline and never once seen a bass speaker blown up. [/quote] I'd usually never lend out gear, but I recently played a gig where everyone used my rig. It was bit of a social do for the singer in my bands leaving party and the change overs would be easier with one set of backline. I knew all the bands except the second support and trusted the other bass players with my gear. Second support band go on, bass player plugs in, bass on ten, volume on ten, both guitarists do the same on borrowed amps. The singer introduces the band as "we're loud, deal with it" and off they went... everyone did "deal with it" and the venue was empty within two minutes whilst everyone sat in the bar waiting for them to finish. The only thing that saved my rig was that the bassist had a crappy J copy with a low output and didnt understand what the gain knob did. Edited March 25, 2015 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunkrock Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1427266807' post='2727967'] Doesn't the Genz have a HPF built in (defeatable by the deep switch)? I remember our Shep once trying a Microthumpinator with a Streamliner and there being no difference, only to do some research and discover that the Streamliner and Shuttle heads already have one built in! I can't remember the cutoff frequency, but I think it was higher on the .0 series, then lowered to something like 30Hz for the .2 series. [/quote] I didn't realise that! It sure does, but I'd be bypassing it running into the effects loop. Maybe need to rethink this plan and use the preamp section, or maybe at least until I get my own cab. I have heard the Genz Benz amps are pretty transparent anyway. [quote name='artisan' timestamp='1427201236' post='2726995'] sounds like a Big Baby 2 would do very nicely I'll never part with mine. [/quote] I hadn't considered the Big Baby before, I thought it had a tweeter which put me off. Might be saving up for one of those rather than the Super Twin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It will be dificult (of course not impossible) to kill a cab with the Shuttle 9.2. It says it has 900W but we all know that in reality those are only 500-digital-W. Also, like someone said earlier the design of the amp includes HPF and other dsp stuff. It doesn't have enough beef, IMO, to drive a common mid to top of the line cab to over-excursion with all controls set at 12'. As long as you don't go mental with the overdrive and if you don't EQ you amp to extremes (too much lows is the biggest danger) you'll be fine. The shuttle is a very clean and polite amp. BTW, i have one 9.2 and love it. I'm not a class-D/Neo hater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Just another thing. When using distortion the biggest concern is the tweeter (also mentioned earlier). I managed to burn one in my Super12T when i bought a Wren&Cuff TFR If the cab has tweeter turn it down a bit or cut highs on your EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 [quote name='plunkrock' timestamp='1427278496' post='2728103'] I hadn't considered the Big Baby before, I thought it had a tweeter which put me off. Might be saving up for one of those rather than the Super Twin! [/quote] It does have a tweeter but it's a nice subtle one,not a horrible glassy sounding one like many cabs have,plus it has a variable control or you can turn it off. I use my cab with my upright bass & it sounds awesome,is small plus a very easy 1 hand carry. my band love it & it sounds way way nicer than the Genz 212 it replaced,I really can't recommend it highly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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